[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG6tqGGZW8Y"]YouTube - KUMDO IS ******** AND KOREANS ADMIT IT[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcc3_iBmMyM&feature=related"]YouTube - Kumdo Fraud - Bonguk Geom[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xz_6MUYHcM"]YouTube - Background of Korean martial arts[/ame]
Aaa.......it would be a big help if you would stop re-publishing the same clips over and over again. It does not make you more right and it really gets annoying. Maybe annoying people is all you really want to do.
Ok 1st video the dude is a dumbass *****. Doesnt know anything other then what the japanese brainwash of we were first in everything we invented everything. 3rd vid the original koreans in the 3 kindoms. they had TKDor i should say hwa rang do. TKD is a new creation of multiple HRD schools comeing together. I admit it. HKD is a new art at about the same age as TKD. Serrium is one of the oldest martial art a from of wrestling. archery isnt a martial art per say. But saying kumdo or korean sword wasnt around is like saying korean didnt defend them selfes with a sword! Ofcours they had sword every country had swords! serrium, hra rang do, archery, kumdo. every country in the worls had: wrestling, standing fighting style, archery, sword. saying a country didnt is just dumb! and idiotic! america was the other world to never defend them selfs with sword. we had guns from the get go!
I know that this thread is about Korean sword and I don't want to derail it. Sometime it would really be nice to hear from Korean nationals about why Archery does not have a bigger following. From all that I have read over the years, the Korean nation was internationally known and respected as a nation of archers. Seems like this would be a huge practice in that country but I never get the idea that it is. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce
antille you are a troll. there i said what no one else wanted to say. but you are an annoying troll. if you dont like something, dont put your 2 cents in. i say, i dont care much for karate but i dont go bashing this art in its very numerous forms on the karate board. and also, since you are so knowledgeable of sword arts please tell me what art do you have rank in sword art and what rank do you have in the art you do hold rank in. I am a 1st dan in kendo, 1st dan iaido, and a 5th in kumdo and hold a 5th dan in koryo gumdo.
The gentlemen, which is what I will call him, is slightly correct on the jump kick. The jump kick was not utilized for CHARGING horsemen...but for a horseman that was focusing on another horseman, or a foot soldier, and another guy kicked him off his horse (if he was REALLY ballsy). As for the anti-Korean crap, there is no martial arts in the world that did not adopt from either another art, or culture, ever. Even the Samurai adopted different methods from other Samurai. One good example was how the Samurai, when invaded by Mongolia, was expecting honorable one on one combat and their forces were decimated since the Mongolians didn't believe in honor during combat. The Samurai adapted in this case. Anyway, there is still much hatred between China, Korea, and Japan and their probably always will be. What I find humorous is that these three countries are open about their racism while the United States and other countries try to hush up that notion. LOL
There was the country which did not have archery. Therefore there is not a stringed instrument in the country. ITF was established in Korea by Choi. Because he took refuge in Canada and established ITF, Korea established WTF newly. TKD is the fact that people in the world know that Shotokan-Karate is a base. Of course it is testimony by Choi oneself. However, WTF and ITF continued insisting that the base of TKD was Taekkyeong. It is the back than TKD that HRD appeared. The Korea soldier had a sword, too. However, in Korea, martial arts itself was the act that vulgar social position did. In other words the person does not leave it to a Korean general and a commander even if there is a person excelling in martial arts. Therefore the martial arts that did not help success in life did nobody in Joseon dynasty. When the bureaucratic system of Joseon dynasty was the same as Japan, do not you misunderstand it? It was a soldier, and it was a bureaucrat, and, in Japan, Samurai was a businessman. Therefore the excellent martial arts master was praised in Japan. 武班 is social position of Yangban in Joseon dynasty, but it is the dropout who is not familiar with a bureaucrat. It comes from the experience that Lee Songgae took Korai by a military coup. He was afraid that oneself was denied by coup d'etat. Joseon was protected strategically by China by being subordinate to China. Therefore, in Joseon dynasty, there was only armament of the degree to give a guard soldier a spear. Of course even the general of Joseon dynasty did not do the training of martial arts. In Imjinwar, a large quantity of swords which there was in the arsenal of the Korea royal palace seem to have been rusted.
It has nothing to do with your being proud of Skill of your martial art that a Korean insists on the lie history of the Korea tradition martial art. According to the Korean old documents, a quarrel over the judgment seems to have been a daily occurrence in the match of Silmu. And villagers develop into a stone war of three days, and there seems to want to be the dead, too. I see. I can understand it if I watch Korean Diet and you.
The American gets tired of a Korean insisting on racial discrimination immediately. Japan and China agree in the history of each other's ancient times, but only Korea does not agree to it. And the Korean cannot understand why oneself are disliked by the Asian country.
I don't know from knocking people off of horses. ( I sure as hell know that I won't be doing it anytime soon!) My own personal issue with Korean martial traditions is the degree to which the spirit of the Korean people themselves plays into the mix. For instance, I know that a huge amount of energy is often put into describing how the Korean military devolved due to the influence of Neo-Confucian thinking----especially after Buddhism fell into dis-repute. OK....no argument there. Even the Koreans agree about this. But what does not get talked about is the way in which the people themselves-----I'm talking about the people rather than the government---- were able to take a stand during times of hardship. I honestly wish someone would write a book on the nature of the UBIYONG and the social dynamics behind how these movements would spring-up. After all its not like the Korean government and bureacracy were real kind to the average Korean farmer, so I can't see the farmer fighting to protect the government per se. But that didn't keep the Koreans from banding together to fight outsiders when they were invaded. Do any of the modern Korean scholars ever investigate anything along these lines? Best Wishes, Bruce
I am not korean. I have lived in korea for many yrs. I have studied in korean universities. I have no clue where "antilie" is getting his information. I have studied korean history outside if korea also. 武班 = 무반 = Unaccompanied This is not hanja for Yangban / 양반 = 兩班 / 讓畔 it depends on your meaning. Thought the first one means social classes. though it is chinese for social class but not korean hanja. The next time you rambling on about the Joseon dynasty make sure your right. Or atleast tell me where you found this info. If you can cite your sources and bibliography or references where your getting you information. antilie, What do you know about sword? what buisness do you have in a sword disscussion? if your not interested in learning and talking about other styles in a possitive manner, why are you here stop being so negative! I have no buisness in a sword discussion! I dont do sword! I am here because of this make believe book and crap your talking about korea. Thanks you,
Only the government decides the Korean education. Therefore it changes to be convenient for the Korea government. 武班 was discriminated against by a 文班. 武班 is not same as Japanese SAMURAI. Korean Kumudo insists on mind such as Bushido. However, there is not such a mind in 武班. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpSxvpRu6BU"]YouTube - The Korean history[/ame] When there are not the martial arts except the bow in Korea from ancient times, it is mentioned in "武芸通誌".
I saw HDGD live for the frst time last night in Paris at the 2011 Festival de Arts Martiaux. There was nothing martial about it. I always try and avoid being negative about other arts (unless they were created by some dunce who couldn't hack training under someone so buggered off and created their own) - but HDGD (the ridiculous XMA variety) really takes the cake. All the demo consisted of is cursory tameshigiri skill, flamboyance, showmanship and egomania. There was little combative understanding or technique, and all I could sadly see was pointless test-cutting (all it tested was my patience) and pre-arranged jidai-movie-esque fight scenes (that served no purpose other than to show the 10,000-strong awed crowd how crazy-brilliant they were). Sorry if anyone is offended by this - although I should point out I am not apologising for my words but am sorry to see you can't see past your HDGDXMA teacher's twisted reality of what a martial art should be.
Scott, I do not do HDKD however, I will say that most Demos for crowds would go along the lines of flashy showman ship. Did they please and awe the 10,000 with their xma? If so, I would say they did a great job. As far as actual combative stuff I doubt they worried much about that other then to seem cool. antile, from your kanji and comments I will continue to say again, Japan thought them selfs the suprume asian race like asian arians. Japan was the leading asian country to trade with western counties after it opened it's borders. Japan as the most amazing asian race, gave their own view of other countries history and to this day it has been believed as true by most nations. "Japan giving the true history of korea" is like you giving a history lesson about madagascar or romania! what do you know about those two countries? and what can you tell me about there military history? I'm sure with every korean martial art thread you show up and bash korea. You in no way contribute and only insult korea. When westerners are talking about a martial art. How do you feel about fillipino, turkey, greece, england, russian martial arts? are they all jokers who don do there arts well? and only japanese had true warriors and scholors?
Surely the point of a demo is to show the actual art? Not some version of movie fu to play on the general public's misconceptions.
Antilie is being a bit of a troll, but he's also mostly right. The Hwarang did practice martial arts as part of their education, but they were not professional warriors like the samurai, and there is no evidence that their martial arts ever reached the level of sophistication or formalization as those Japanese arts that became the basis of modern kendo. There is very little evidence that Hwarang martial arts survived the Hwarang at all. There is no evidence of an art like kumdo existing in Korea before the Japanese occupation. According to all reliable historical sources, the whole idea that a martial art is a do and all the philosophy that goes along with that idea were born in Tokugawa Japan, several centuries after the demise of the Hwarang. According to all reliable historical sources, much of the equipment used in kumdo (even Haedong kumdo) was invented by the Japanese centuries after the demise of the Hwarang. I myself am a practitioner of the Korean martial art of taekwondo (an art with similar history disputes) and hold the Korean martial arts in great respect. But so long as Korean authorities cling to obviously false histories of modern Korean martial arts, much of the international community will not take them seriously.
Well, Scott, at least you got a good taste of why I walk a BIG circle around the HAE DONG KUMDO community. And I honestly believe that its going to get a whole lot worse before it ever gets better. The simple fact is that the very thing that makes Korean MA what they are is the very thing that does not make them "commercially successful". For instance, in the matter of the Hapkido arts, if you take a very close look at the current material most closely related to the original CHOI Yong Sul material (see: YONG SUL KWAN; JUNG KI KWAN) you will find practice that is demanding, uncomfortable, tedious and emminently pragmatic. There is none of the acrobatic kicking and exotic throwing that has been added by later generations to enhance saleability to the consumer public. In like manner, if I had to draw a parallel with some Japanese art that you might be familiar with, I would say that Korean sword, historically, has always bore a much closer resemblance to, say, TOYAMA-RYU of the 20th Century than to some age old lineage. The people who keep screwing this up are the "martial commerce" people who are much more worried about making something commercially successful than anything else, and gives me a royal pain....if you catch my drift. Best Wishes, Bruce
All good points.....I'm afraid that Antilie stepped over the line a while back but I'm leaving that for the Mods. Its enough for me that I simply don't respond to his sort of (un)reasoning. Nor does it help that the Koreans have been their own worst enemies for generations. The middle bureacracy preyed on the common man with a level of corruption that would make Chicago government look like a room full of Carmelite nuns! Such abuse makes for some pretty uneven reporting when folks start talking about Korean history. After all, when we talk aboujt history do we want the history that is the naked truth or do we want the history that comes closer to how we wish things had been? Know what I mean? Take the Japanese Samurai, for instance. Ever notice how the SAMURAI are held up as some sort of paragon of Martial Virtue. That might be the kind of history that Japanese people want to believe but it sure ain't even close to historically accurate. The SAMURAI started their place in history as revenue collectors for rural lords whose distance from the Japanese capital and the Emperor let them pretty much do anything they felt like---as long as the Emperor got his piece of the action. As far as neat virtues like "Honor" and "Virtue" you can pretty much kiss that stuff good-bye. The entire 200 year period leading up to the TOKUGAWA-s was nothing but individuals and nobles switching allegiances back and forth, edging around for the best deal. The crap thats thrown around today about SAMURAI this-and-that is pretty much a produce of 19th Century revisionists like Nitobe who drew on old stroies of past derring-do to create an icon for the Ultra-nationalists. We Westerners had the same crap when Sir Thomas Mallory (see: Mort D' Arthur) started getting all Romantic about the knights of the European Middle Ages and courtly love. That was another crock. Look for the origins of the Crusades and you find out that was the only way the pope could get nobles to quit fighting each other and put their acting-out to use! Anyhow....getting back to the Koreans......I don't think its surprising that the Koreans had made-up crap to make their past look better than it was. How many people want to get up on the World Stage and tell everyone that their ancestors were real s***-s and that right down to the 20th Century Koreans victimized each other left and right? What I fear for is the real history of Korean martial traditions which are getting overlooked and lost while modern Korea busts its butt to take on every Western behavior and vice they can. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
