My top five (you can do as many as you want) 1). Kurt Cobain - Loser, but good poet 1). Jim Morrison - Damn. All I can say. 2). John Lennon/Paul McCartney - Writers who saw beyond the tunes 3). Plant/Page - Ultimate wailers 4). Billy Corgan - An all time great, but I can't remember his songs 5). Maynard James Keenan - The darker side of poetry
I think I'd also include (in no particular order). I'm assuming we're sticking to rock/pop: Bob Dylan--lyrics, anyway. The guy can't sing, but the songs are great... same goes for Nick Cave and Leonard Cohen and Neil Young. And Lou Reed. And Frank Black. hrm. Maybe great song-writers make bad singers? And there's loads of artists/bands that, whether you like 'em or not, know/knew how to write great pop songs--Berry Gordy (Motown), Burt Bacharach, REM, Depeche Mode, U2, Stone Roses, Elton John, Morrissey (for lyrics, anyway), Pink Floyd, Radiohead, The Who--there's so many artists and bands that have stood the test of time, I'd be here all night. (my disclaimer: I dont necessarily LIKE all these artists, but I respect the fact that they can write excellent songs). I think a more interesting question is, in 20 years time, which artists from today's charts are we going to still be listening to?
for starters..... Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Joni Mitchell, Stevie Wonder, Neil Young, Bob Hunter (Grateful Dead), Lou Reed, Bernie Taupin. Billy Joel, Phil Collins, ........
Okay, I'll bite. From a country point of view, Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson. They're songs have been recorded by a 1000 different singers. Good thread so far.
Bernie Taupin. C'mon, you gotta know who he is. Jim Croce. Eric Clapton. Axl Rose. The whole bunch in Matchbox Twenty and Nickleback.
Neil Finn - I'd die for his middle eights. Dylan for the lyrics, Hendrix for the 7#9ths and pushing the envelope. William Orbit for his early IRS conceptual work that became trance.
Lyric-wise, you have some talented and witty writers out there... First off, most definitely, would be John and John from They Might Be Giants. You might not like their music, but their lyrics are as complex and throught-provoking as the best literature. Tori Amos, as well, not only has the voice of a beautiful siren, but her lyrics mean something! Third would be a little-known christian punk band known as Relient K. They vary vetween serious and hilarious, but either way, they have a certain flair for manipulating the english language. Who else? Let's see...Trent Resnor (NIN), Bob Dylan, everyone from Pink Floyd, and you're right on Matchbox Twenty. They have an interesting take on things, but their lyrics are different. And, although I wasn't a fan of Smashing Pumpkins, I do have to give props to Billy Corgan. By the way, if memory serves me right, Elton John didn't write any of his stuff...excellent performer, but he had to get someone else to write his lyrics, I think. I may be getting him confused with someone else. Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about?
IMO, best lyrics are in hip-hop - De La Soul, for example: Held Down, by De La Soul This is dedicated to all my folks Diagnosed with a bad case of that proper upbringin And never took the time to fall in line or follow or swallow the thoughts Of the recognized committees who lurk throughout ya cities Ya hood, ya town, no matter which type You from the same type of people try to hold you down Just because you tailor-made for bigger and better things Never missed a chance to move ahead of things And what does it bring? I tell you for me it brought jealousy in backrooms from all the stabbin Cats posin as my fan just to get grabbin what's mine I'm livin in times where my daughters are found around kids who can't afford thinkin caps But always found drinkin raps and eatin off beats Claimin laws of the streets - but who made the laws? Everybody playin Rebel with no sign of a Cause [Chorus: Cee-Lo] Well I, feel the world around me I've found, that others, will bring you down, just to be down You've got to make up your mind, where you wanna be Where you wanna go with your life With your life.. [Pos] Yo, I'm never singin the blues but findin the clues to maintain And I been blessed to reign supreme over nearly every dream I had, and I made it come true I'm an imperfect man and I'm holdin the clue to perfection, it doesn't seem to matter what direction I look I find people settin traps Tryin to find the goal - without havin any maps Even friends of mine, jumped on line, just to become my adversary They felt they were entitled to the dairy I made They don't come to chill or behave And they got, toast ready to burn Not learnin to live, but they yearnin to take what you earn [Chorus: Cee-Lo] Well I, feel the world around me I've found, that others, will bring you down, just to be down You see - you've got to make up your mind, where you wanna be And where you wanna go with your life With your life.. [Pos] So quick to place blame.. and deny the shame we bring upon ourselves So many names held accountable for my own account When a large amount was weight - that I made and shaped When I climbed I found It was hard to find others around to point my fingers at Which made me realize the truth The biggest supressor could be your own ego lookin for an excuse to plant roots, in a field of self-sorrow to sprout and follow the first thing you feel Nourishes your hunger to be respected, it gets hectic And when I'm watchin the news, and my daughter walks in and choose to ask, 'Why were all those people on the floor sleepin, covered in red?' I told her that they were lookin for God, but found religion instead Then there is the aforementioned Bob Dylan, one of the VERY few lyricists to whom the term 'poet' can be even vaguely applied (there is an enormous difference between good poetry and good lyrics - ENORMOUS!!). David Bowie has also written some great stuff, like 'Life on Mars', Morrissey, despite being a dick, wrote some interesting lyrics while in the Smiths, Robert Smith occasionally came up with good stuff for the Cure but recently seems to have lost any lyrical talent whatsoever, and the Rolling Stones/Beatles 'rivalry' also has various lyrical gems spread across it. Gil Scott-Heron is apparently very good, and the Grandfather of Rap, but I haven't managed to hear anything by him yet. Finally, there is Don McLean, who deserves recognition purely for 'American Pie', and in particular the endless discussion his lyrics brought up; if you're interested, check here, here and here Of course, I could post up all the songs I was thinking of in regards to the various artists, but that would make this a rather huge post. If anyone wants me to bore them with said lyrics, I'm more than happy to.
Good lyrics should be ambigous or evocative, so the listner can co-produce the feeling from their own experiences.. For exampe.. "The guilty get no sleep, in the last slow hours of morning".. probably gives us all a different and personal mental image.
And inbetween all those amazing songwriters, somebody decides to throw these muppets into the fray! What the hell.
Hey now - its a subjective thing.. being art'n all that. Plus - there is no known cure for "cloth" ears - I hope they find one before my dad dies of adult orientated rock. Great use of "Muppet", though.
I disagree - I hate vague lyrics, though not as much as vague poetry. Grr. Lyrics should mean something, not mere words warbled into a microphone to accompany the music. Thats why (certain) hip-hop is great, as it frequently has a clear social conscience, or alternately why I enjoy groups like the Smiths and the Scissor Sisters, who might not always be politically motivated, but tend to at least be interesting. Most lyrics make me cringe, as so few people put any effort into them whatsoever. However, I don't have a problem with lyrics which have multiple interpretations, merely that there should be some kind of purpose to them - with very rare exceptions, there is nothing worse - lyrically or poetically speaking - than abstraction.
Hmmm... I don't know. Let's take "the blues" for example.. *Note - I hate the blues with a passion* You're either in the "mother of all music" or "formuliac and simplistic" camps when it comes to blues. But let's look at the lyrics.. they tend to be fairly Journalistic: "I did this, ma' Baby done that, du-neh-nah-neh-nuh." Its a story, but it doesn't evoke raw emotion.. You know, those musical moments when you shudder.. a wave of feeling that starts from the middle of your back.
That's damn great taste... EDIT: Personally, I prefer vague or unique lyrics, because the lyrics nowadays just sound like commercial sell-offs; one dimensional. All they complain about is losing their girlfriend, or shooting people, or partying/rebelling. *cough* good charlotte *cough*. The days when Jim Morrison, Slash, Axl Rose, and Corgan; those were the great writers, the guys who could write AND sing. Its sad to see music take on a more commercial approach, in my view, but I will give credit where its deserved: Tool, A Perfect Circle, and Audioslave still "keep it real." Sorry, that was bad.
Download some muddy waters, then tell me it's all the same. Yes it's got a lot of that, but when you listen to all the classics, you can't help but like it! Check out bb king live at the regal as well, one of the best live albums ever.
Ok, need some clarification then - let the semantic tangent begin . 'Vague' and 'unique' are very different things - how are you using the term 'vague'? To use good ol dictionary.com, it offers these 5: 1. Not clearly expressed; inexplicit. 2. Not thinking or expressing oneself clearly. 3. Lacking definite shape, form, or character; indistinct: saw a vague outline of a building through the fog. 4. Not clear in meaning or application. See Synonyms at ambiguous. 5. Indistinctly felt, perceived, understood, or recalled; hazy: a vague uneasiness. None of those are postive, unless you take the first one to mean 'open-ended', which I think would be a misinterpretation. 'Vague' to me means the writer is too lazy and untalented to actually direct the words to anything specific, so throws in a bunch of meaningless abstractions and unrelated strings of cliches.
Notice the "or." But, yes, I prefer vague lyrics over the modern lyrics anyway, because, like I said, all they do is complain and talk about killing people. It's just my view, because I see vague lyrics not as lazy, but just a different interpretation.
Depends what you refer to by modern. Have a listen to Scissor Sisters, theSTART, the Strokes - do you feel all they sing about is 'killing people' and 'complaining'?
