Okay, so some of you may know that I used to do some LARPing. Well I'm getting back into it in a group which permits grappling. (a little like DBMA with padded weapons and an emphasis on fighting as a team) Now I've done plenty of fighting with a spear and plenty of grappling but I haven't had much opportunity for the two to meet. I know I've seen atarashii naginata and owari kan ryu spear but I can't recall seeing any disarms or fighting once someone has closed past the speartip other than choking up on it. Does anyone know of any videos that might give me some ideas to play with? Sword and dagger grappling would be great too, I know it's out there.
7-10 feet. Mine's 8 feet but twelve footers are probably more common in the game since there's apparently a lot of fighting in lines.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clFvfBK8m_w[/ame] Here's an example of one of the bigger events but at the local chapters and tournaments there is a lot of one on one and small unit games.
Kurtka Jerker, not sure I have anything to help, but maybe I'll find something. Most of the weapons and grappling references I have use the grappling to neutralize the weapon and then elbow strikes or kicks are used. For example, grab the spear, put it point down and kick them in the head. Or conversely, bash them or strike them with your shield. It is important to get the weapon point down to the ground and from there are more options, including sacrifice throws and some disarms. It doesn't look like grabbing the haft of weapons is something I saw feasible in the video. The other thing that makes some of the grappling not so easy is that I'm not sure the value of the armor in the games. In grappling you can do things to deflect a weapon against your armor. For example, a wrist lock off of trapping the flat of a blade against your chest armor (this works because the point of the blade deflects off the armor). Just for giggles, here is a simulated battle that talks about the importance of armor (warning some graphic scenes). Also, I wanted Hannibal to win because of the one on MAP, but... [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME3gfLLQcWQ"]Deadliest Warrior Season 3 - Genghis Khan vs Hannibal - YouTube[/ame]
If you're fighting in units with long spears then you shouldn't be grappling. Once the spear points can't be brought to bear (which happens at a longer range than grappling) then you should switch to your side-arm.
'Push of pike' was a common occurance back in the day. (e.g. English Civil War.) Once two opposing formations of pikemen got closer than effective pike range to each other then it literally became a mass shoving match. Wouldn't have made great TV, but it's what tended to happen. Pikemen didn't tend to have side arms because things like swords were expensive and you'd have to buy your own, whereas pikes were fairly cheap and were churned out in great numbers for the arming of the hoy-polloy.
It looks like the spears are fairly flexible which is goign to make leverage based throws and disarms difficult. If you can pass the point to the inside (where you're both on the same side of the haft) you can work fairly standard wrestling/judo/shuai jiao you just have to control the spear. If they are wooden hafted there are some aikido disarms for the bayonet and jo which work well and can be learned quickly but I'm having trouble sourcing videos. I'll get back to you on that. EDIT: This is the best I could find of the juken techniques and a lot of his mechanics, timing, and striking are not great but it should give you some ideas to start and you can always refer to the second video of Ueshiba for better mechanics. (Juken techniques start @ 6:26 in the second video) [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlGr3TEJOhU"]Marco Rubatto - Juken Waza: the forgotten Aikido weapon (Eng) - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98yRuBkUBGQ"]Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba 1935 - YouTube[/ame]
That's exactly the sort of thing i was thinking of, thanks. I can work with some of that. And you weren't joking about dude's body mechanics.
Famous story. Kimura was asked to demo and try to work against a bayonet attack. Picked up the rifle, threw it in the opponents face and then grappled to submit him. Guy who was the tori was completely gob smacked... Sometimes the weapon confuses the issue! :' D LFD
This is apparently a cultural myth. Swords could be acquired for less than a day's pay for the lowest paid soldier.
I don't know if there would be time to draw a sword without something like using their shields as weapons first? Edit: I got confused between Phalanx and Pike formations. With Pike formations, after initial contact the first line could aggressively attack with swords and daggers, etc.
Pikemen typically didn't have shields. A raised pike is not especially useful defensively so it's not like you've got anything better to do.
SERIOUS WARNING - DO NOT EXPERIMENT WITH STRANGLES WITH STICKS / STAFFS. IT IS VERY EASY TO PUT ON A VERY EFFECTIVE NECK BREAK ACCIDENTALLY. Applying chokes and strangles with sicks / night sticks caused so many "accidental" deaths in the USA in the sixties that some state police forces argued that "The negro race had exceptionally weak necks".
