aaaaaaaannnd now there may be people talking for and against muay thai clinching =P OooH look! shiny butterfly! must catch and see what alchemical effects it produces!
I cant help but feel that youve completely got the wrong end of the stick from reading your reply. Im not an instructor, i dont go around claiming to be either. I did mention in an earlier post the i COULD teach some of this stuff. As for crappling and no experience we a have a bjj/judo blackbelt taking that part of the session and his wealth of experience is outstanding. Were also training on saturday with 2 team gb judo competetors for the olympics. Actually im very interested in becoming a good martial artist, i devote 6 days a week to training, on the other hand.. Combatives is not a martial art. It works completely different to any martial arts ive ever studied/seen. Yes i do care if im effective, combatives is about being fast, effective and ending a confrontation as quickly as possible. Thats why we dont do MUCH ground work. Because thats not where we aim to be, but you cant say that just because you dont to go to the ground you wont.. And that why we train for that eventuality. I didnt say that youd lose to someone better than you, youve took what i said in the wrong context. But surely someone whose done 5 years just bjj and someone whose done 5 years mma, the bjj only guy has devoted a much more significant amount of training to grappling... So in most eventualities should win if he can fightt the way that suits his style? Correct?.. We dont cram things in, we encompass a range of techniques that have been PROVEN to work and are fairly simple (compared to the approach of tradition martial arts techniques) There are no 'champs' in regards to cqb training, just you an whoever the enemy. But i do agree that you should be training to be the best your completely right with this statement, but its just not physically possible to encompass EVERY style of fighting into your training to be better than somone who has devoted their trainin to just one style. And yes all of this training is pressure tested to the absolute maximum, full stress, suprise, contact etc.. AFAIK this class is the only place that does this type of training to anywhere near this standard, thats why we have people coming from all over the world to attend the yearly seminars. In reply to your last paragraph, like i said.. Im not a combatives instructor, all of the training is from highly experienced instructors who have years of experience applying the stuff they teach Cheers -J
I don't need to know anything about the background of this or surfing to know that taking a guy down, elbowing his face into mush while your mate prevents him from fighting back, then breaking his surf board isn't acceptable in any way. Never said it wasn't worth getting upset about. Didn't say that learning the ettiquete of surfing was stupid. What I said was the level of the beating metered out was stupid. And it was. Someone cuts across you when you're surfing absolutely deserves some strong talking to, maybe even bust their surf board. But bust their face? When they can't fight back? That's essentially just torture in my book. And what's stupid is trying to excuse it.
Technically, no, I'm not involved in 'Combatives', as promoted by the likes of Mick Coup, Lee Morrison, Matt Larsen (US), etc. As far as I am aware, those guys all teach good quality, effective stuff. And if I was asked to recommend someone to do a short course with the likes of Police Officers or Prison Warders, etc., those are the kind of people I'd recommend over and above most (if not all) Traditional Martial Arts instructors. My background is two years in Judo, whilst still at Secondary School, and after I left school I studied TKMA from 1973 - 1989. Since that time I have cross-trained in a number of different - but complimentary - multi-cultural combat/fighting art disciplines. If you only want to be involved in the martial arts in order to learn only that which is functional on the street and in bars, then Combatives is probably as good as you'll get. But speaking personally, I have a fascination for some of the esoteric stuff too. So, in other words, I'm into the martial arts for the long haul, not just for the 'quick-fix' material.
Whenever my students ask "which art is better" I always tell them every art is automatically perfect, right from the moment of conception. Why? Because every art teaches you the same thing: defend and attack using kicking, punching, grappling, weapons, and so on. I have seen Muay Thai fighters loose against Tae Kwon Do fighters. I think we can all agree that Muay Thai is one awsome striking style but the man representing his art did not put in the time, or was not as skilled as, the person representing Tae Kwon Do. Same goes for Jui Jitsu versus (insert striking art here). If the guy practicing Jui Jitsu is A) too cocky or B) doesn't train hard enough or C) lacks the experience he will loose to the striker every time. There is no one superior fighting style. It's the person that makes the style. It has to work for you. As for street combat, I will say only this: street situations suck because it's not a ring, an octagon, or a mat. It is asphalt, hardwood floors, tables/cars, bystanders in the way, multiple people situations, and god forbid the possibility of someone picking up a bottle or worse. Many times mob mentality sets in and a group, once seeing their friend may have the upper hand, will jump in and also attack. In this case, going to the ground is a terrible idea. You'd want to stay on your feet and go for vital areas of the body (i.e., groin, eyes, throat, sternum, etc) and use the other persons momentum to your advantage by (hopefully) moving him into the path of his friends thus allowing you to have some control over the situation and being able to fight one-two people at one time. When it comes to training for these situations you should start off slow with one person sparring, then step it up to two, and three. Anything more than four-five (depending on your personel skill level) you should choose to flee as your honor won't do much good to you if your in the hospital or the proud owner of your own personalized coffin. Another thing to focus on is precision training under stress. Studying body mechanics will help you focus your striking from "the face" or "the midsection" to the throat, nose, eyes, and more dangerous targets. For example, it takes 75 pounds of pressure to crush the larynx. It takes 85 pounds of pressure to crush a soda can. So, simply stating, it takes more effort to crush a soda can than the larynx. Why would I waste my time hitting someone in the jaw when my life is at stake or more than one person is attacking me? Since this thread was started on the Kuk Sool portion of MAP, I'll leave on a Kuk Sool note: the goal of Kuk Sool IMHO is to simplify fighting and these kinds of situations to the bare basics. Anyway, rant over.
I have a problem with the highlighted part. I do not believe in your version of mob mentality. I believe if somebody sees their friend getting beat, THEN more jump in. I also am not a firm believer in "vital areas". The eyes/head are my primary target, but I don't have any faith in "the eye gouge jab" thing we do in JKD. I can't practice it under pressure, so how will I know if it's good for real life? Also, I was wondering how you made fighting off more than one person sound so easy?
LOL Thank your for pointing that part out. It does seem like a misworded my post. Apologies all around. As for vital area striking, I suggest a BOB or a person in a "red man suit" and limit yourself to only striking certain areas. Another great idea is to have people just randomly attack you during class (obviously with control) to help work your reflex training and reaction time. Another thing to remember is you are a martial artist. You should have enough control to be able to practice at full speed and not hurt your partner. If I made it sound easy than I'm sorry, that was not my intent. But many people are so fearful of fighting more than one person they forget that it's imperitive to remain calm during either a one on one or multiperson engagement. I have, succesfully, defended myself against three attackers before and did exactly what I wrote in my post: I stayed calm, moved them into each other to the best of my abilities, and went for the neck, sternum, groin, and so on. I did take some blows (you WILL be hit in a fight) but was able to knock one of them out, hurt another, and make the last one flee. Now, will I be able to do that again? I have no idea. Each fight is different. I just hope to not find out again.
Define easy to learn, use? There's a big difference between teaching a set of simple, straightforward techniques and actually getting a student to be able to pull off said techniques whilst in a life threatening situation. You said this stuff could be taught in an afternoon and then used, well unless you give the student "homework" I can't see how. Even something like situational awareness has to be drilled and made habitual. That type of thing doesn't come in a day. Now if this training is so awesome why are all these people getting into difficulty in the first place? Also there's always a slight problem with people's anecdotes, things we tell ourselves tend to change overtime and so do things we tell others. Again define learn and define effective whilst you are at it. How does one afternoon overcome the results of an adrenal dump? How does one afternoon build the correct level of soft and hard skills? That's smashing but all we have really is you going "it's awesome honest!" but not really saying much else.
I know I'm late in this thread, but the surfer who whooped the kid got a bad rap on this forum because the original post was only part of the video. Here's the extended footage version: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2ikz2wy&s=1 I personally think the dude on bottom got his just deserves.
Since when did this become a *****ing* contest? :dunno: You said you would "kick students out of your school" if they abused the MA. FWIW, I agree with that sentiment but without scrutinizing the video, I simply suggested that you might not be all that familiar with certain rules surrounding the sport of surfing, some of which can rightly get one's ire up if violated (as I pointed out, there IS a safety issue and thus when ignoring these rules it COULD justify people wanting to get a wee bit physical when confronting the perpetrator). I admit that I may have laid it on a little thick, but by the tone of what you said and how you said it, I don't think I overreacted one bit (especially in the context of how you made surfing sound like some *red-headed stepchild* of a sport, i.e. referring to it as being "stupid" to get all worked up over "not surfing right" when in certain cases it's TOTALLY worth it IMO). You know, in instances like this it wouldn't hurt to go back and try to see where your statement could've been misconstrued (i.e. examine the wording you used to express yourself), and then explain from there, rather than just dig your heels in and be so damn argumentative. :thinking: Then try this, brainiac: google "Kreskin" :google: EDIT: I made this reply before viewing the video linked in post #92. My original objection to what you had said was more about how you had "jumped to conclusions" in assessing everyone's motives, which I intimated shouldn't be done if wanting to be truly fair. So learning that the guy was "begging for it" doesn't really justify the actions of the guys issuing the *beat down* IMO, but it does go to show that using a little discretion when trying to determine how everything played out, where the FULL story hasn't been revealed, may not always be such a bad thing. 2nd EDIT: This statement definitely tells me you are unfamiliar with surfing... FWIW, I would guess that most surfers would gladly incur a black eye and/or a few facial contusions, than be forced to purchase a new surfboard (they aren't exactly cheap, BTW). A few bumps & bruises will heal, with no cost whatsoever. Besides, occasionally surfers will get banged up from doing their chosen sport, as some surfing *hotspots* do have reefs and whatnot, and yet they take the risk anyway (few surfers would also fall into the category of being *wimps* - LOL). But I get your reasoning, smitty. I just wish you wouldn't be so contentious when someone questions you instead of swallowing whatever platitudes you happen to be spouting.
Jindotgae, go back to post 33, watch both video clips, and then come back and tell me that you really do believe that you could defend yourself (empty-handed) against Maul Mornie (1st video) or Frans Stroeven (2nd video)... Here you go, a little game for you to play: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdJAgfO2GQc"]Reality of trying to defend against a committed Knife Attack - YouTube[/ame]
Sounds to me like you're annoyed people aren't passionate about surfing but personally even if I was a big surfing fan I wouldn't for a second be justifying that video. Ignoring a tap in bjj is dangerous as hell but I wouldn't start beating the crap out of someone for doing it while my instructor made sure they were a good boy and didn't fight back at all.
I actually made a comment yesterday in my classes about never knowing who your going up against. Sadly in my neck of the woods the MMA folks usually have a chip on their shoulder and want to prove their might and power to the world...or usually the local bar crowds (though some I actually spar with and are very nice people). I explained to one of my classes that I myself don't look like much (since I more or less look like a hippy LOL) and I have been challenged on more than one occasion by people that knew less than myself because, and I'm guessing here, they thought they could "take me". However there has been that rare occasion where someone was actually pretty good, which equaled dangerous at that moment, and would have proven a threat if I had been over confident or cocky. I tell each student to imagine that their opponent is some high ranking master or MMA bad boy and to do their 100% best to take that person out as accidents can happen and you never know what the other person is capable of. That way they will never get cocky and be knocked out by someone that "looks" inferior. As for kicking people out of your school, I have to say I have more than once suggested to students they should train else where and that training with me may no longer be favorable for them. I hold no ill will towards most students that feel I am not helpful to their growth in the martial arts (though some were either extremely rude and volatile on the floor or sneak and underhanded in which case they are not welcome in my school again). I even had students leave before because my emphasis wasn't on the "point based" system of fighting and, to speak frankly, I only use point sparring for my lower ranking children because that's how little I think of it, or any sport based martial arts, but still hold no ill will towards what it is they want to practice; after all, it is about them and their journey in martial arts. Now, students that use what I teach in a destructive manner by starting fights does not sit well with me and I usually discuss what happened and give the person another chance (depending on the situation). I remember both Soon Tae Yang CJN and Byung In Lee CJN both saying that martial arts is not about being a thug. It's about compassion towards others and self defense. I have to agree. Taking the first swing is usually uncalled for.
Nothing of the sort, Lefty!. More like being annoyed at people jumping to conclusions without knowing the WHOLE story, in addition to not knowing why some surfers may be passionate about teaching someone "a lesson" who violated certain safety precautions. But whatever, dude (it's not really worth continuing the argument - especially after most of the misconceptions have already been clarified). :yeleyes:
You've obviously never surfed at Bournemouth Pier haha. I've seen some right clowns out surfing, never come to blows but the attitudes on some is hilarious. Telling me to leave my own local wave as I'm not local enough etc, while living 2 miles away and riding down there on a bike. Never listened to their rubbish and bull though. Just means I snake and drop in on them. Noone else, just them. Surfing is a whole new world of aggro, not this world of chilled out hippies. (not that i've surfed in over a year in all honesty, partially due to getting immensely furious with massive crowds, angry idiots, having to hassle for waves and having to drive 30 miles further to get a wave that avoids the aforementioned.
