Personally I much prefer boxing to wrestling, but I have to conclude that pure boxing vs. pure wrestling, the advantage goes to the wrestler. The Boxer's only hopes are to keep the fight on the outside the whole time and take the wrestler apart with straight punches (slim to nil chance) or get a lucky cross/hook/uppercut (low to slim chance). There is no real reason to have to choose one or the other. Learn both and you can beat either. If modern MMA competition has demonstrated anything to me, it's that striking is not great in a one-on-one match unless you also know how to grapple, at least a bit; then it can be devastating. If you notice the several times that GSP and Hughes clinched up and GSP stayed on his feet thanks to his great WRESTLING skills, it was a stand up loss that would have been a Ground and Pound or Submission victory for Hughes if Georges wasn't a top-notch wrestler. If you could amputate the part of GSP's brain that knows how to grapple (if there were such a thing), the match would proably have lasted about twenty seconds at the outside. Personally I generally prefer to box when I fight. But I have no illusions that I could beat a wrestler using only my boxing. In a one-on-one match without weapons, wrestling is WAY better than boxing (if it's a pure wrestler vs. Pure boxer), end of story. Don't let the wrestler bother you. If he does, put on Royce Gracie vs. Dan Severn, Liddell vs. Couture (where Liddell wins ; ), or Matt Hughes vs. Georges Saint-Pierre 2. That should show him where you're coming from.
Boxing has its uses and so does wrestling/grappling. Pit a wrestler in a boxing match against a boxer and 99.99999% of the time the boxer will win but pit just a pure boxer against a grappler in a competition like UFC and yeah I think you can guess the results... (if not see Royce Gracie VS Art Jimmerson UFC 1) and why does the grappler want to take boxing up? obviously so he can make his punches better....duh.
Yep, his BOXING ability Which proves what? Let me remind you wikipedia is good...but is as flawed as any other medium. Just because it is written does not mean it is true So he was noticed because of his raw boxing? Doesn't that prove my point and undermine yours? He was/is a BOXER before anything else Nor is Rio where the Gracies live - what is your point? Tyson is fast, powerful and a scary dude. But it is crap when peopel say "oh he is a stret fighter - look at Holyfield". The only reason tyson bit was because he was getting his butt handed to him again and he couldn't cope. His so-called "streetfighting" didn't help against Holyfield the first time, Lennox Lewis or Buster Douglas did it? He was atough boxer - no more, no less
Whooh! I win! Oh, and regarding the pro boxing vs pro wrestling matches - from what I understand, most of those are "worked" fights akin to pro wrestling. I think the Gene Labell one was real (a "shoot"), and I know the Mohammed Ali one was a work. And Slip, the guy who gets his arm broken did San Soo (Or maybe it was Shou Shu?) one of those fakey kungfu/kenpo things.
If Ali-Inoki had been a work, it would have looked much better. Both guys knew how to be entertaining. The story I heard is that Inoki originally wanted a work: Ali would beat him up a bit, Inoki would "juice" (cut himself with a concealed razor, a common pro-wrestling technique), then jump Ali with his back turned so either side could say they'd won. Ali and/or his camp was afraid it would turn into a shoot, or maybe they weren't really interested in something that could make him look bad, and because the two camps couldn't agree on anything, it was turned into a shoot, except (dum, dum, dum) Inoki, the wrestler, wasn't allowed to use any throws or holds. You know, wrestling. Hence the 15-round crab-scuttling borefest. Though I always through the Andre-Wepner was a work, even though it was included in Mark Hewitt's "Catch Wrestling" under mixed matches.
There are so many rumours about the Ali/Inoki fight. I heard one that went along the lines of Inoki being banned from grabbing, which is why he "hugged" the mat and kicked out at Ali. Apparently Ali had blood-clots in his legs for days and couldn't walk properly. It is also rumoured Karl Gotch (who was cornering Inoki) offered to have a "go" against Ali when Ali said "I have seen your fake matches". Gotch is then said to have shown his wrestling trunks under his tracksuit and said "i am ready to show you fake fighting right now". Ali would not continue until Gotch left the ring. This is all rumour, but it is interesting to speculate. I also agree that a work would have looked much better. At least Gene Lebell had fun acting as the referee. As a related aside, anyone remember Buterbean vs Bart Gunn? 35 seconds as I recall!
Hannibal you proved your point. I totally agree with you now... BTW, in regards for Tyson not using street tactics not working on Holyfield... I don't know but by the looks of Holyfield jumping up and down clutching his ear...... that seems like something I would not want another person to do to my pretty lil ears :love:
Hannibal you proved your point. I totally agree with you now... BTW, in regards for Tyson's street tactics not working on Holyfield... I don't know but by the looks of Holyfield jumping up and down clutching his ear...... that seems like something I would not want another person to do to my pretty lil ears :love:
I take up boxing because the chances are....im never ever gonna fight a wrestler. I see so so many fights in the street at night time (i stand on the door of a bar for a job at weekends....) And they all go the same way. Some skinny guy rips his shirt off, then they square up for a bit Somebody swings...and yes i mean swings some totally crappy punch, the other guy tries to grab him and throws another crappy punch, one falls over. Now, this is where it can go different ways. Sometimes yes it goes to the ground, somebody sat on top of another while it gets split up, or the other guy stands there an goes "get up you pussy" OR he kicks him in the head. In any case, it always starts with that punch. And with my fights, i dont intend it to go any further. Ive never seen anybody shoot in a streetfight (well, with any skill anyways) But ill let you guys know when i do.
There were some that were works (Primo Carnera vs Lou Thesz with Carnera winning for one) but Ali was treated for blood clots in his legs after his fight with Inoki and took some solid shots to the leg. Pro wrestling in Japan is also different from American pro wrestling: theres is very technical with lots of groundfighting and legitimate techniques. I honestly doubt it was a work, as they limited the fight to strikes only and it was incredibly boring.
They actually don't juice too much in Japanese-style pro wrestling, it's mostly an American thing. Lucha libre does a little though from what I've heard. It's tough to tell, as Wepner was a rock and had taken some serious beatings before. Andre the Giant was just a monster though (something like an 8" thick wrist), I'm sure getting slammed around by him is no fun no matter who you are.
For non-professional fights, there are a lot of athletes that grew up with wrestling bigger brothers and as a school sport. Also a lot play American football in the school systems. You get some decent wrestlers that know how to tackle someone but they have no formal martial arts training. Just thought I would mention this because boxing is usually not thought of as a school sport until maybe college. It is possibly more likely to find a decent wrestler than a decent boxer. Although everyone can throw a punch, that doesn't make them a boxer. Now it is possible that Tyson bit the ear out of frustration because he was being head butted a few times and the ref was not calling it. Watch the fight footage decide for yourself.
I would say it depends if you know the guys a grappler or not, but how would you know on a street situation... ? The grappler would need to see the opportunity of putting the guy offbalance and then take the opponent down, trying to take someone down who is strong on their feet or expecting a take down is very hard work. If you don't expect someone to grab you round the legs then this can be the grapplers advantage, but in situations I have had of grapplers is that if you step back as they come in a good uppercut and/or lead hook (hand combination) or knee would do the job simulataneously moving out of the grapples grasp. You need to be very nimble but still strong on your feet and read the person. I was in a grapple and strike tournament the once and the guy came straight for my legs to take me down, I stepped back, legs firmly on the ground and put him in a guilateen choke and he had to tap out, I was standing. If I got taken to the floor on the steet I wouldn't wrestle I would bite, gouge anything to get out of the ground/wrestling situation Why not learn grappling and boxing etc, both have good qualities.
since this is a real ond thread o doubt i will get a comment on this but.....for a guy with the name sake mike tyson you havent spent much time in a boxing gym.....not an insult just an obsevation.... sure most people dont fight out of there weight but....we train out of our weight all the time....take me im 5 10 175lbs....unfortunatly when we spar we usaally get grouped up into light weights and heavy weights......depending on who is there and how many people show up......this puts me in the unfortate positon of being the lightest of the big guys.....and the guys who show up themost are...6 2 240 (roider) ,6 5 230, 6 6 300. oh nad of coarse a guy who is 5 10 and about 140 but since he is a fairly high level pro ...this is the only whay he even has a remotlel close match. on my lucky days a lot of people show up and i get to be "big man in the middle weights"
myke, seriously...people fight weight classes up all the time, they're called wrestlers. I do it atleast every other week, we have no 205 pound guy, so instead of giving up the points in that class, the 160's pick it up, now, granted, we don't always win, but its doable.
Ive sparred with a few guys at the jitsu club at uni, and i have to say the guys that were advanced at sparring just rushed me and i was on the floor before i could respond with anything looking like a strike!.
