Grappeling training methods vs striking training methods

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Pompeythegreat, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    So the title for this thead may not be the greatest, but I will dive into this anyways.

    So I was thinking about tge way that strikers train vs the way that grappelers train. I was wondering which way would produce greater results and lead to higher proficencys?

    Grappling
    • Less time spent on technique/ drilling
    • Lots of time on rolling, randori

    Striking
    • Lots of technique/drilling
    • Less time sparring

    So I was wondering what you think would be the better training method?

    What I think:

    I think that striking has the right method, focusing on drilling and technique.

    This is because you are breaking down specific situations, and showing specific methods and techniques that could be used to exploit the specific situation or make the situation one that you can exploit. Such as using a leg kick to help slow the opponents movement down so that you can fight in a method that is natural for you.

    I think that specifically things like this can be used in grappling, for example in my experience with grappling the training is that you get shown a technique and practice it for 20 or so minutes and then immediately begin to do roll without fully understanding it. I believe that it may be better for grapplers to have a class ratio of 2:1 for techniques to rolling, that is to say 1h of technique and drilling to 30 minutes of rolling .
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Not from my experience. When we start our BJJ classes for the first time, we don't roll at all. We spend the first two to three months just doing techniques. Then we join the rest of the class which is normally 40-45 minutes of drilling, followed by 15-20 minutes of rolling.

    Also, I think that your ratios won't work even half the time, because every instructor is different, and so teaches in his or her own way.
     
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    What exactly is your experience in either? I'm quite curious because the way I see it... it's all over the shop for either style. Much of it will depend on which camp you train with and how many fighters are there and how many people are there just as a hobby.

    if you roll with a more aggressive professor/camp then you will spend more time with live rolling. But you'll also spend more time drilling positions and high percentage techniques. The ATOS guys drill incessantly. It's no coincidence that Andre Galvao's book is called Drill To Win.

    Every coach will have a different style of teaching and a slightly different focus. Compare a Lloyd Irvin and his guys with someone like Kid Peligro and his guys. Pretty different in a lot of respects. Their training methods will reflect that.

    Much the same for Muay Thai. But again.. if you fight... it's going to be more the same across the camps. Most of the time... not always... but most of the time. Boxing is no different. There are the exceptions - camps that don't spend much time on the bag... they focus on sparring more or drills. But it's anyone guess when it comes to Muay Thai fitness etc. (non-fight camps) - and frankly... who cares what they do. They might as well be doing Combat Yoga or whatever.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Grappling classes run like that are normally by bad teachers.
    My BJJ classes has the first hour drilling and light isolation sparring, next 30mins rolling/sparring, then the last 30mins either more drilling or sparring / rolling.

    The 101 striking classes we run are mostly light isolation sparring, its the best way to build good sparring habits from day one.
     
  5. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    I think striking is generally taught well, and s is grappling. Different things need to be taught differently.
     
  6. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Why would it have to be an either/or situation?
     
  7. Knoxy

    Knoxy Undisputed and Undefeated

    I think you can do that for grappling quite easily as well.

    Example
    You want to do a class about single leg finishes, so you demonstrate one finish such as running the pipe, you have the class drill that, then you teach another one, like switching to a double, so you send your class to drill that and then you teach them, maybe a foot sweep finish and get them to drill that.

    Then you can do position specific wrestling. So you get one guy to be the defender the other guy has 20 seconds to attack from a single leg clinch* ten seconds rest then switch over.

    *(Example here: "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qvsb2tM6_E&t=65")
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  8. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    I think you've never trained grappling.
     
  9. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    In defense of Farr, I can confirm that he does train in Judo.

    Everything else though I have no idea were it popped out from.
     
  10. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    How about instead of just saying Im an idiot you explain to me why I am?

    And yes I do judo
     
  11. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    For grappling I do judo, and we spend the majority of the session rolling, with very little time spent on techniques and drilling compared to that spent on the randori. Where as in Kyokushin, once you get past the fluff that seems to be prevalent in most karate the time is mostly spent on light sparring, techniques and drilling.
     
  12. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    Not much experience in grappling (I'm more of a striker), but this has been my experience. Also, please pardon my inevitable spelling mistakes, IPhones keyboards are horrendous to type with when you have fat thumbs.

    For grappling (Jujutsu and Aikido), we would, 90% of the time, have some sort of rolling segment, be in Randori or wrestling. However, the breakdown of the class as a whole was 80% technique/drill practice, and 20% randori/wrestling.

    For striking (Tae Kwon Do, Boxing), it was about the same, but with a few differences. Boxing for example, you wouldn't spar every class. However, you would have some sort of sparring simulation, usually focus mitt work. So from my experience, the ratio of drills to sparring has been the same in both grappling and striking.

    Frankly, this kind of thing can vary, it's very, very general. You can't really classify either strictly.
     
  13. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    To add onto above, striking wont just be this, and grappling wont be just this. It's to broad and to constrict two aforementioned areas to specific characteristics is something I disagree with.
     
  14. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    my judo class was all technique. as was my MT class.
    i only started sparring when i went to open mats for BJJ although the classes were all technique
     
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Thats quite strange for a judo dojo, uchikomi is normally a cornerstone of judo practice, ate all the classes run this way, or do you only attend the randori heavy classes?
     
  16. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    I may be going to the randori heavy classes, due to the fact that the competition class, which is mainly technique, happens on a day that I am unable to make it.

    I feel like I may be discrediting the people that I train with, that is not at all what I want, because they are allgreat people and many or great at judo.
     
  17. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I think that "grappling" has the right method, focusing on drilling and technique.

    You need to do partner drill at least 7300 times (20 times daily for 1 year) on any of your throws before you can use it effectively.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxLiZDsssN0"]SCd2 - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Why that specific number?

    At what time does muscle memory or drill competency kick in and isn't it dependant on the quality of the throw, training partner, instruction given and the pressure under which the drill is done?
     
  19. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    20 times daily for 1 year 365 days is 20 x 365 = 7300

    A friend of mine his father forced him to "only" use "hip throw" for 2 years. He became 3 times national champ in Taiwan after that.
     
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think you misunderstand my question.

    I'm well aware of the maths, but why that figure specifically?

    Your friend was national champ, so I assume he had decent instruction and access to good training partners, so do those figures work for everyone?
     

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