Grand Master In Hyuk Suh's Uniform - or - Grand Master Byung In Lee's Uniform

IMO you hit the nail right on the head Bruce, it seems as if in the KMA the leaders of the org's imitate a monarchy within their respective systems. I suppose it is to represent a traditional hierarchy or chain of command to give the student a realistic feel in traditional martial arts. I find it a bit eccentric, but none the less it is interesting. I don't take it personally nor do I find it offensive. At the end of the the day I'm my own man and can do as I please...well of course within the limitations of my governments laws and restrictions.

 

Uhh, The topic is IHS & BIL's Uniforms...ThreadJackers!

 

Let me start out by saying that I AGREE with the OP that we should try to stay a bit more on-topic. But since things got rather heated about a comment made by IHS which I happened to share, allow me to elaborate (although I ALREADY stated that his comment was delivered with a tongue-in-cheek candor).

Yes it's true, Demdike, AFAIK In Hyuk Suh got a medical reprieve from mandatory military service due to what is basically a heart murmur (or something like it). Although he doesn't go around flaunting this mild disability (he's not one to draw on others pity), I don't think it's a secret by any stretch of the imagination. So while this health condition did keep him out of the army, it doesn't prevent him from doing MA.

As for his "at war" comment being crass or in any way disrespectful of those who do fight in REAL war zones (and yes, I would consider NI to be one during the timeframe mentioned), I believe it's totally unfair to take it out of context the way it has been done throughout the last few pages of this thread. If I were to say I was "at war" with my neighbor due to a property line dispute, whether it had escalated to the point of legal proceedings or not, then I doubt anyone would get terribly perturbed by my use of that phrase (although *battling it out* in the courtroom would certainly help justify any comments about "war"). To be "at war" with the media's portrayal (or lack thereof) of KSW until the average person might more readily recognize the name of a not-so-popular MA, is using the term in a metaphorical manner and is NOT intended to belittle the courageous acts of those who do serve in the military (and for FREE nations, allowing the *rest of us* to enjoy the freedoms these brave souls provide with their blood).

Twisting what was meant by that statement of IHS to insinuate that he is insensitive to or unappreciative of, what has unselfishly been given to all of us living in the free nations of the world, IMO is the real injustice.

 

If I were to say I was "at war" with my neighbor due to a property line dispute,

You'd be employing hyperbole also. There are better words to use for what IHS means and what you mean.
Aaaand...what you say is different to what the influencial head of a worldwide martial arts organisation says.
As I see it...equating the struggle to make Kuk Sool as popular as TKD as being like being at war is crass. It's not a massive crime against humanity of course but I think it could have been stated better.

 

Let's not forget the CONTEXT in which the statement was made, okay? I agree if he had expressed it as some sort of press release that it would be crass and misbegotten, but OTOH when it was said to me, as the ONLY audience, and in a joking manner, then I wholeheartedly disagree. Taking a *holier-than-thou* approach to it shows as much lack of understanding as you purport he has towards those who fight for their country. FWIW



Now can we PLEASE drop this side-topic? (for the love of peat )

 

Fair enough. Afterall discussion isn't what this site is for is it?

 

Ya got me there, smitty.

But realize that I was pleading for more ON-TOPIC discussion.


And in trying to connect back to the discussion of uniforms, let me re-emphasize my reason for mentioning that conversation in the first place. IHS was expounding to me about the symbols depicted on his wangsa dobok. If familiar with asian thought, you'll no doubt be aware that um/yang (or yin/yang) permeates much of it. That's all that the twin dragon or twin phoenix design reflects, and is subjectively equated to war-time vs. peace-time, or to put it in other words, an active state vs. a passive state.



EDIT:
This may or may not pertain to the choice of BIL to use the twin phoenix motif, but if I were to guess, I'd say that perhaps it's his way of making a subtle statement that he is NOT "at war" with WKSA. They issued an ultimatum and he made a choice about accepting it. He was in a position to continue his livelihood as a MA instructor, and found no reason to deviate from what he had done for so many, many years. Some may claim that the MSW organization is nothing more than a *carbon copy* of KSW, but if that were the case then MSW would not defer credit to KSW & IHS for its existence. In fact, all the *offshoot* MA organizations where the head honcho studied for any length of time under IHS, usually give credit to having learned under the banner of his MA organization (his brother In Sun Seo being the only one that I know of that doesn't mention such a connection, and of course, doesn't really need to IMO).

 

Hi, Bruce.

Your concerns are worth a reply, and since no one else bothered, let me assure you that what VM stated about the gold/purple uniform that most folks equate IHS with wearing, being strictly *ceremonial* garb, is 100% correct. He wears it for demos, promotion ceremonies, seminars, rank tests, etc. and also for most publicity photos (which includes the one WKSA requires its schools to hang on the wall). So except for the occasional seminar where he has taught (usually he has some underling 7th or 8th dahn do the *dirty work* LOL), whenever I have witnessed the man teaching, he was wearing whatever clothes he happened to have on his back at the time (which believe it or not, is just as likely to be a hanbok as it is a pair of dress slacks [such as Dockers] and a collared T-shirt [akin to a polo-jersey] - as he harbors no delusions about his cultural identity and proudly wears hanbok in public, even when there is no special event which is why most koreans break out their traditional dress). Mind you, I'm not referring to the type of hanbok made with bright colors, but more mundane stylings that are sold for everyday wear.

I happen to own a hanbok or two of the plain variety, and due to the roomy design, is very comfortable attire, indeed!






EDIT:
Just in case some might be skeptical about men's *festive* hanbok being brightly colored, and why these type are usually reserved for very special occasions, I have included a few photos below (the man's hanbok is first, followed by male/female children's hanbok, with two examples of a woman's hanbok):

​

 

Good Post Unknown, but if you bothered to read through all the posts you would see that I indeed commented on Bruce's post (mine #61 above).

 

Oh really? Then how come this thread is labeled as a POLL? And yes I answered the poll. I see there are people who never bothered to respond on-topic to the POLL and yet they post! LOL.

Further, the military discussion was tangent to the original topic because it was mentioned that IHS' uniform had some sort of symbolism. It was a logical drive. Realize that any and all topics regarding symbolisms on the respective uniforms is fair game.

If you don't like free-thinking people to post opinions that differ from you, then don't bother to start a thread! OTOH, if you believe in freedom of opinion, especially on an internet forum, then just accept that not all threads will remain always remain in your little sandbox. You start sounding like a certain other poster who tries to control others' opinion based on the mundane fact that they started a Poll/Thread. LOL.

 

Sorry, Obewan. I did read your post BTW, but since you failed to elaborate on the concept of a hanbok vs. what some have deemed *garish* attire, it didn't register in my brain the same way it would've had you done so. Of course, that doesn't give me the right to totally disregard your contribution, and I humbly apologize if my "since no one else bothered" to reply comment made you feel marginalized. :bow1:

You know I value your presence here on MAP, right?


If it makes you feel any better, I'll go eat some crow now.

 

I grant you that, VM, but arguing about what constitutes a "war-zone" is a bit off-topic, you'll hafta admit. :dunno:

 

When it comes a poll asking the OPINION of folks of which uniform they like better...is there anything that is really off-topic? The whys and hows of the various symbolisms on a uniform are all fair-game....and if one of the symbols in the original uniform in the poll is about war (contextually or literally), then warzones are fair game.

Its like asking for an opinion and when one is given and the answer is not what is expected...the old, "off-topic" song and dance comes up. LOL.

 

Oh, I forgot. . . .


The almighty VM is NEVER wrong. :hail:



But if we were to take a poll on which MAPer (in the kuk sool section at least) has single-handedly disrupted the most threads with incessant bickering over mindless minutia just to prove a point about being *right*, then I'm pretty sure who the winner would be.

 

LOL. Well, you'd be the only name in the poll.

 

Whatsamatter? Too shy to admit you'd LOVE the glory and attention for winning such a poll?



I'm gonna hafta retreat, as the sarcasm is getting WAY too heavy to handle. :banana:

 

I'd like to think that who is wearing the uniform is not equated into my opinion, but thats hard to prove, I tend to like the darker color more pronounced and the trim a lighter brighter color, ( this is the way I painted my house ). If I had to wear one of them, No Ma afiliation invoved, I'd rather wear GM Lees.


No I didn't paint my house purple and gold!

 

Well, thats because you'd be the rightful winner. Speaking of minutia...aren't you the one who pointed out the difference between "inverting" and "reversing" color schemes in this thread? Oh, and pointing out that things may be off-topic but never answering the poll yourself? LOL. Oh wait, you did post on WHY you didn't want to answer the poll.

Some people deserve a prize for doing great things...while others want a prize for simply NOT doing things.

Outside of ceremonial gear, I definitely agree that the darker shades may draw a bigger audience. I wonder, though, if BIL will have several version of this ceremonial uniform...each with different color patterns.

It may alter overall opinion if we got to see the entire collection from both men side-by-side.

 

My! but we're full of ourselves, aren't we?

Are you really as thick as you pretend to be? Cuz anyone can plainly see that I was JOKING with OTL, not really griping about minutia (too pressed for time to see the exchange going on there, I suppose?).

By NOT answering the poll, I have expressed my opinion, or are you oblivious to this fact as well? And I gotta point out at this juncture, that you're being a bit hypocritical. Case in point:

I'll let you *scratch* around your little play area now!

 

I'm sure you don't have to drive too far around your neighborhood to find plenty of houses painted in light colors with darker shades for the trim. So it's all about personal preference in the long run. One of he reasons I edited my post (#68) with all the hanbok pics, is so people can see that koreans tend to like bright colors for their festive ceremonial garb. :thinking: