Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by JamesR, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    My brother does Kuk sool

    He has his black stripe for his brown belt grading coming up. It's £50.

    Why is it so much for a certificate, piece of electrical tape and the hour long lesson? - Say £1 for certificate, nothing for a piece of tape and maybe £10 for the grading would be reasonable, totalling £11, but £50!

    For £50 I could pay for my months Ju Jitsu training and a grading as well? I just don't understand why it's so extortionate, it really is annoying, it seems like they entice you in then as you get closer to the "Black Belt" that everyone wants they increase the cost of the gradings since you will more than likely pay instead of leaving.

    It really is starting to annoy me the costs of it.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  2. Shibby!

    Shibby! Valued Member

    Because thats what the instructor wants to charge! :)

    The certificates might have an admin cost from the big boss, but its minimal...... oh and you dont get a certificate for a black tab, so its £50 for the electrical tape!

    It could be worse, the black belt and above gradings are much more expensive, and they are paid to the head man himself.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Ooft, that is quite ridiculous man! That pays for a month of my classes. That's BJJ, MT, kali, and MMA for a whole month!
  4. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    It's getting stupid tbh - So there are what, like 7 black stripes all at £50?

    That's £350! - Then the actual black belt grading costs what? I guess something ridiculous, then the "Generals Uniform" - How much is that?

    It's just hard not to see it as a money making game, or as a McDojo it really is.

    Exactly! - It's more than a months worth of lessons for me too, it's shocking and I can't bare the fact he's getting proper raped on the costs when the training isn't even that great from what I can see. It's 50% meaningless forms which they don't get told the applications for so they are basically dancing, 20% fancy kicks that really don't work that well, and 30% techniques that are mostly from wrist grabs and really aren't that effective anyway. Not to mention the constant fixation on the "Blackbelt". - Not to put down the art but this is just my opinion.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012


    But does he like it. It is worth what the consumer will pay. Ask at the front-end what all the costs are. Then you wont feel cheated.
  6. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    When you join something, you don't really consider 2 years time and what the cost for a piece of electrical tape on your belt may be.

    And yes he does enjoy it to a certain degree, but the cost of it is getting ridiculous especially with the costs of everything rising. Whether he enjoys it or not is beside the point, why charge £50 for a grading when they arn't even being taught anything? They are paying to turn up and go through things and then get a piece of tape on their belt, why not just charge the normal fee for the class?

    Can you not see were I'm coming from? I guess since you're a school owner though you are more than happy with the costs anyway.


    I see where you are coming from, I don't charge for DBN tests, after they pay The big Blackbelt regestration fee all the stripe tests are free. But that's just me. My GM gives me that option. I have a no contract month by month fee system. the lower belts pay 10 - 15 per test. They get a new belt at stripes also.

    And remember those boards you break cost about $1.50 each over here.

    I don't like the escalating test fees either.

    Just wonderd why you were complaining about your brothers costs.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  8. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    i wouldn't go 50 pounds, but if i were to grade you i would expect compensation for my time. maybe the instructor's time is worth 50 pounds. it can also be seen as a trade; your bro won't have to go to tourneys(and pay, btw) to promote in bjj/judo and get cauliflower ear.
  9. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    But his "time" is spent just watching the students? It's not worth £50 I can tell you that now. Even £20 is reasonable, but £50 is an absolute joke.

    If he was doing BJJ / Judo he would be a lot better off from a self defence standpoint as well as a fitness standpoint. In my opinion of course, but I haven't seen anything yet that has made me think "wow, that is going to be effective / hurt"

    ANYWAY - I don't want to get into the usual "This art is better than this art" crap - We all study different arts and we all like different arts. - But no matter what your background, you can see that £50 for an hour long session in which the instructor sits there and watches is bull.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You don't have to compete to get graded. Not in my school anyway.... :)
  11. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    All I want to know is, why is it that much?

    Where is the justification for it to cost £50? As I can't see it.
  12. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    You know what a McDojo is right?
  13. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Nah man, definitely not, the ONLY reason I could think is that the Instructor wants to only teach martial arts full time, and he can only do that with extra income.

    Saying that, my Instructor is full-time martial artist, doesn't charge for anything except classes, you can source all your equipment from everywhere else ^^
  14. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    And there is your answer James.

    Unfortunately many places are consumer driven which in some ways is ok as long as they are delivering the goods but as we all know that's not always the case.

    As for the asking up front about costs well if you know what you want and what to expect that may well work but unfortunately a beginner isn't going to have that knowledge and, IMO, the public probably don't realise that there are people willing to take you for a ride in the martial arts world because they tend to have a load of misconceptions about what MA is and those involved.
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Dude your instructor is Rick Young! I think you're safe as far as quality goes.
  16. Xanth

    Xanth Valued Member

    Now, you said he did Kuk I'm not sure if the WKSA is involved here..but either way, you can always vote with your feet. If the fees are too high, consult the instructor and let them know. Perhaps an arranglement can be made to assist with instruction, sweep/mop the floors etc to "pay" in other ways. If ultimately you are not satisfied that are not getting what you paid for, then leaving is the way to go. If enough people leave that instructor, he'll start to understand that either he needs to be worth 50 pounds for electrical tape or he needs to lower the price. I didn't pay that much for my stripe, but your mileage will vary. BTW,The WKSA Generals uniform is running at $220.
  17. karma

    karma Valued Member

    You really can't. It's the instructor that makes the style.I do not know who his teacher is, nor does it matter. There are schools out there that certainly stick it to you with a cost for everything, and know very little. but on the other hand, there are instructors out there that run schools that teach a quality system. It is annoying to see instructors teaching and taking money hand over fist and they have very little in the way of an actual fighting knowledge. Again, from the other end of the spectrum, I know quite a few instructors that have a vast amount of not only martial art knowledge, but a plethora of knowledge about actual fighting. They have traveled the world spending vast amounts of money, time, hospital bills, education material, etc., are sought after for seminars, training, etc., and they DO NOT COME CHEAP. I guess what I am trying to say is there are instructors that truly understand martial arts, and sometimes it is more than a little bit to get that info. However, it is certainly sad to say there are those that even may know quite a bit, but spoon feed there students to keep up their retention rate and therefore squeeze all they can from you. I am sorry if your brother found one of those, I hope in the end it does not put a bitter taste in his mouth about martial arts as a whole. There Are those of us that strive to keep quality in that which we share with others.
  18. JamesR

    JamesR Valued Member

    Yes it is with the WKSA - I won't mention the instructor as I believe he isn't bad himself but it is the organisation that are causing him to charge so much.
  19. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    because people can make money from stupied people.


    Last I herd the WKSA only tells them how much to collect for Blackbelt fees.

    NOT monthly or testing fees.

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