This fight proved Bjj is no longer king of the ring. Everyone has a ground game now forcing a stand up fight. And taking away the bjj advantage. I see tonight's fight as proof. Gracie threw only kicks and knees and used zero bjj. I am assuming the knee to the groin was on purpose. Guess we will never really know for sure
Really? Your assessing the entire scope of MMA as a whole, on Royce vs shamrock 3? What i took from it, A) the striking was technically terrible, B) there's a good chance someone took a dive C) both are being drug tested. D) people will pay to see "any old stuff" nowadays.
Not as a whole no. Striking was very poor. I agree. A dive maybe. It's free to watch belator in the states. My point was that a pioneer of bjj did not use bjj. Back in his prime bjj was king, and now its not because everyone has a ground game. I think it laughable how people put the gracie family on a pedastal, and how many of the gracie them selves think they are God's. Clark gracie one told me that bjj is all you need! Tonight's fight said other wise. I am not anti grappling at all. Catch wrestling is superior for ground work in my opinion, but I do some bjj. A lot less since meeting Clark gracie though
Bjj is no longer dominant, and hasn't been for like 10 years. Try and get an mma fight with no bjj and you'd be lucky to be winning it. CACC is not superior or inferior, it breeds tougher grapplers but what happens when you meet someone tougher and more technical?
There's no ultimate art, just gaps in other people's knowledge you can use against them. The clark Gracie thing, what was the context of the comment? For what, is BJJ all you need?
Exactly what I said. CLARK GRACIE told me that bjj was all you need. I was only quoting him. I know that there is no ultimate art. I train karate, boxing wrestling jits, and judo. Perhaps my point was not clear. Even one of the. Bjj gods won a fight by NOT using bjj.
So in what context did he say this (i.e. what was the preceding sentence, what situation was this) So for example, watching the UFC, Somebody arm bars someone else, and clarke gracie looks deep into your eyes and says BJJ is all you need. or your at a seminar, your asking how karate chokes can work from underneth Side control, and clarke gracie looks at you in contempt and says BJJ is all you need. or your at his house the morning after the night before, and you cant open the can of acai for your morning smoothee, so he RNC's it to bust it open (you know, popeye like) and winks at you whilst saying 'BJJ is all you need'. Context, its kinda important.
He came to the gym where my family trains . my son was doing clark gracie bjj. He taught a class. While I ke. was warming up he asked why I did not participate in the class. My response was along lines of I don't take bjj I am a striker. I am quoting him. Exactly. "Striking is fine and all but all you need is ju jitsu. " On a side not the bjj Class was not gracie afliliated when he started. Hen it became so the price nearly doubled. But the training did not improve because of the name. A year layer the instructor could not afford the seminar demands made by clark gracie and lost the right to use the name.
Meh, I really think MMA has just evolved over the years, not that BJJ (or let's just say ground fighting) isn't relevant anymore. I remember when I first started watching it and the wrestlers/ground fighters were always winning. I really just think that was because not as many people were well versed in these methods of fighting. Then you started seeing people like Liddell who was decent enough at striking, but also knew the ground game so you started seeing people who could strike with a ground game. Now it's a lot more balanced, and I think fighters have to really think and find their opponents weakness in the ring to take advantage of it in order to win. I really feel like there's a repeat of this in women's MMA as well, the most recent example being the last Rhonda fight. When people know how to play your game you gotta' learn how to strike, and striking ain't nearly as easy as everyone likes to make it seem. It's a lot more of a maneuvering game than throwing your limbs out.
At lower levels you can get aways with having a pretty imbalanced game. At higher levels you can't. you need it all and BJJ or [insert grappling focus here] hasnt been enough for a long time. If you look at Kron, he is doing well (last tiem I checked) with a heavy BJJ bias but his standup will deffo be exposed the higher the level he competes at unless he elevates it.
http://www.mma.tv/mma/gracie-tkos-shamrock-in-trilogy-match/ The takedown is classic GJJ. I'm not sure about the "strike" that proceeds it though!
It could be a delayed response, but then again it only seemed to bother him after he got his increasingly fragile chin cracked by a knee I thought the takedown was VERY clean and the hammerfists were just to finish - I have seen Gracies throw them since the "In Action" days so again nothing new. In fact the more you look at it the more this was almost a textbook "GJJ (tm)" exhibition
Not seen the fight in total but since when has striking to maintain distance, moving into a clinch, striking in the clinch to set up a takedown, takedown into a dominant position and then striking from that position to set up a submission (that didn't come because the ref stepped in) NOT bjj/gjj?!? Bjj (especially the nhb flavoured Gracie version) has always had all that.
Just saw the finishing round elsewhere. Do not know how the rest of the 'fight' went, but it looked like a fight between 2 old men, both still with technique and a degree or 2 of ring-craft, but lacking stamina; and very wary of each other. Not quite sure what makes men in their 50s want to do this - they are not alone - Frank Bruno was talking about a comeback. Maybe its faded ego, I do not know. I understand that Shamrock was very poor, so I guess he needed the money. Gracie, Im not sure. All seems kind of sad and a bit pathetic to me. I hope Connor McGregor continues a great career, and bows out at 35 or so.
I really only saw poor striking. Maybe my my over all lack of knowledge is to blame I have only been working a ground game for 4 years, and secondary at that. I am very biased to the wrestling side since I train with mostly wrestlers. Plus most of the bjj guys I know are on the arogant side. And yes I was cheesed off at the unsolicited question and attitude by clark gracie. Perhaps he thought i was watching in awe, since I was working a heavy bag.
Bro the head of the assoc comes to teach, he asks if your training, and you say I don't need to, I'm a striker, and you think he's rude..... Amazing! PS Royce is being looked at by the IRS, so he'll need the cash!
I only saw a 55 second highlight, so I can't draw any real conclusions from that, but it looked more like WWE than MMA. Shamrock looked surprisingly philosophical about losing after a foul... suspiciously so, I'd say. Maybe the purse is good enough that he doesn't care about the outcome?
