Grab defenses

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Judderman, May 7, 2004.

  1. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

  2. bigd

    bigd New Member

    well when i teach grab defense, i teach to pry and pull(EXAMPLE)-say someone grabs you by the wrist,you pry(by turning your hand counter clockwise)and then you pull (basically pull out)see when you pry you go towards the thumb side,on every grab,always pull toward the thumbside, you pull toward the fingers he gets stronger,toward the thumb he gets weaker.(EXAMPLE)-say he grabs you on the left arm,you 'll turn right because its toward the thumbside,now if pry and pull dont work sometimes,theres always pressure points.(EXAMPLE)-say he grabs you by the wrist,as you pry and pull,you strikethe top wrist bone simultaneously.now for the arm(EXAMPLE)-as you turn to the rightor left which ever arm he has,strike him in the inside wrist as you turn away simultaneaously.thats just basic begginer stuff,later on you go to jointlocks and stuff, its just basic.now rear chokes-stomp on a foot,poke in the eye,grion hit or pull,FOUL TACTICS-pinch,claw-pinch and claw the hell out of his arm,legs stomach,groin,all at once,bite if you have to,if you can,head butt,(finger locks-ubi waza)but really for a woman ,as a grab to the wrist,armany where,go for the nutts.
     
  3. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    The wrist grab escapes already described are really good. As far as chokes we teach our self defense classes to aim a hammer strike to the floating ribs. It works from the front or the back and I have watched a thirteen year old girl drop a black stripe, so I am pretty confident that it works. From rear grabs we teach breaking the foot, pinching the inner thigh (really hurts you guys out there) or knuckle rakes, also effective as a trap. There is also the groin rake where you mule kick backwards so that the calf makes contact with the groin and then "scrape" your foot forward across the groin. We try not to get too technical and keep to the nitty gritty.
     
  4. Monty

    Monty Valued Member

  5. hedgehogey

    hedgehogey Banned Banned

    To a trained grappler, who is used to getting out of far more threatening locks and chokes, the standard "str33t grabs" are a joke. Wrist grab? It's just like handfighting. Throat grab? Just laugh, for it is the crappiest choke imaginable. Bearhug? That's where I WANT to be!
    So to a bjjer or judoka, you use the same techniques you use while rolling or doing vale tudo.

    That being said...

    Wrydolphin, i'm afraid your school isn't teaching you good SD if "hammerfist to the ribs" is one of your grab defense. If I were you i'd just stick with the sub grappling.

    Much of the "defenses" being taught in most schools are pure BS. I'm reffering to things like "Hammerfist to groin to defend a bear hug" and "Stomping foot from behind". These techniques are completely unworkable. If anyone disagrees, I offer myself to test them out. I weigh 140 pounds and am not very strong. If you can't hurt me with those "self defense" techniques you can't hurt big bubba the bruiser.
     
  6. khafra

    khafra New Member

    I believe the hammerfist could be a positioning aid--when I was in USMC boot camp, before they started their new nonlethal unarmed combat, we'd slap the inner thigh of our opponent while training defense to rear choke or bearhug--but the mnemonic phrase for actual use was "grab, twist, pull, grab," if that give you any clue :Angel:
     
  7. surgingshark

    surgingshark Valued Member

    Then come on over down to CA this June, mate :D
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2004
  8. hedgehogey

    hedgehogey Banned Banned

    We'll see. I'm going to an anime con in CA in june, but i'm not sure if I can fit both in.
     
  9. Monty

    Monty Valued Member

    And on that note .... if you're ever in Denmark, I'd be happy to show you how to do a proper hammerfist to the groin, as a defense against a bear hug from behind.
    If you can't make it work, Hedgehogey, I'm sorry ... you haven't been taught well enough.

    It works .... trust me.

    As for experienced grapplers .... those aren't the people I train to work against.
    I'm practicing self defense. And as such, the element og surprise is my best weapon.
    If I'm attacked, it's because some person has judged the situation, and is 100% sure ha can take me. If he weren't that sure, why should he start the fight ?
    He's not even considering the fact that he might end up losing the fight.
    Chances are ... when he's flat on the ground, he'll still be wondering why that first strike didn't take my haed off, as he reckoned it would.

    I don't care if I'm attacked by a skilled grappler ... If he's sure he'll win the fight, he's sure I won't defend myself to any serious degree. And then he'll be in for a big surprise :)
     
  10. surgingshark

    surgingshark Valued Member

    How's June 18th from 10am to 4pm sound? You could teach me some groundfighting maneuvers, too (my groundfighting still isn't as good as I'd like it to be).

    I'll have to disagree with you there. When they're sure, that also means that they want to win the fight and will likely attempt to beat you into a bloody pulp to reach their objective.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2004
  11. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    I am a grappler, and I have used grappling to defend myself against being raped, and yes, it did work.
    Hegdehogey, be realistic.
    We are talking about women's self defense here, right? Not sparring, not fighting a martial artist and not fighting another grappler. Would I ever use these techniques against someone trained, no... probably not. But then, are there really that many people out there who are trained in martial arts? And I know that there aren't that many trained grapplers out there either. What is the chance of a woman being attacked by a grappler? The point of women's self defense is to defend against an opportunist who picks what he thinks will be an easy target. The act of surprise and quick reflexes will and can save a life. The point is to break the hold and get away. I don't think I will be changing what I teach and recomend to the class anytime soon... unless of course there is some secret rape army out there being taught grappling by a Gracie? Didn't think so.
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I think something to look at as well is the "level of intent". Often the "wrist grab" will begin merely as a light restraint. It may be a freind or a boyfriend trying to stop you. Going alkl out with a viscious strike or painful submission may not be the most apprpriate way. Instead you will need a 'breakaway' or something to separate you from the person and get some distance. At the same time, you need to practice these techniquyes with escalation, for example the light grab becomes a determined grab. the determined grab becomes a pull, a pull becomes a slap or punch or a "come-along".

    It's nice having techniques in your arsenal to deal with the worst situation, but you need to know how to deal with the lessser one.
     
  13. bigd

    bigd New Member

    first of all no one can predict what a opponent is going to do,and we cant predict,what works on oponnents,people are different,you might have a guy that grabs you ,and you hammerfist him in the ribs,this guy might buckle,but another guy might laugh,people are different,not everyones going to give the same reaction,for instance,wristlocks,i know this guy mitch,wristlocks would not really work well on him .but striking did.not everything is going to work,on evry one,thats why experience with different bodys.some are tougher in certain areas than others,some are more,flexible than others,so everybodys different.
     
  14. Monty

    Monty Valued Member

    Yep, that's the mental part of self defense:
    He's 100% certain he'll win the fight, and if he thought he might run into serious troble, he'd never pick me ... he'd move on to the next guy.
    He wants to win the fight, yes. He just doesn't think there'll ever be a fight as such. He'll jump me, I'll give, and he wins. That's the scenario that runs in his head.
    He'll jump me allright, but the second I don't just lie down, he'll have to work out a completely new plan. And while he thinks about that, I'll win the fight.

    If I even for a second doubt that I'll win, he'll most likely be on top. But I don't doubt .... not for a second.
     
  15. hedgehogey

    hedgehogey Banned Banned

    Good, i'm glad. I wonder, if it's not too painful, if you could post how you defended yourself in the women's self defense forum?

    Well, a lot of people wrestled in high school.

    MAYBE hammerfists to the ribs work on an untrained slob. But frankly, we don't know. I'd rather rely on a technique I know works, one i've practiced on a resisting opponent.
    I doubt your students spar with these techniques.
     
  16. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    Its not painful, thankfully. I was almost date raped in college. I was at the guy's house due to being locked out of my own house accidently by my housemate. I told him no, he figured that was a go ahead. I used a basic bridging technique and popped him off of me. Got up and walked out. I was very fortunate that things didn't escalate at that point. He was so angry that I wouldn't sleep with him he actually stomped his foot (very a la Rumplestilskin) and stormed back to his room and slammed the door. I think just being able to physically remove him from my body was enough to keep him from continuing the attack.
    A lot of people may have wrestled in high-school, but I have never met a single one. Maybe its just not at all popular in Texas... don't know. And no, we don't train the women full on yet due to the fact that the class has just started and they don't have the basics down well enough yet. But yes, as they progress, so are we. One of the techniques are surprise attacks. The women close their eyes and one of us will attack from an unknown angle with an unanounced attack. This helps the women to react without thinking about it. It speeds up reaction time and response. And yes, I see your point about full resistance training, and I hope that you conceed that it has its place, but with more advanced students.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2004
  17. hedgehogey

    hedgehogey Banned Banned

    No offense, but it seems you just bridged him. No hammerfists to the ribs there.

    Think about it this way. When you first started grappling i'm sure you did at least some light rolling on the first day.
    It's like saying "They don't have the basics of grappling down well enough, so they shouldn't roll yet."
     
  18. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    Been gone for a while.... had a wedding that I had to attend.
    Ok, lets clear a few things up. No, I didn't strike him... and the reasons are two fold. A) He didn't take it to the next level of violence, so neither did I. There is a point where it ceases to be self-defense and becomes asault. And B) I don't recall ever saying that any type of punch or arm strike is ideal when your on your back. Leg strikes to an exposed back are much easier and much more affective. The hammer is ideal when still standing because it provides a good solid fist to hit with and untrained women or men are much less likely to hurt themselves while using it.
     
  19. hkphooey

    hkphooey New Member

    I'd love to punch you in the testicles, and I'm thinking after I smack them you'll be kind enough to either let me go or give me the extra second to put you down. ;)

    With a wrist grab, its important to remember to not make it too martsy-artsy. Depending on positioning, while pulling your arm free of the grab you may, and should, slide in a nice chin jab or boot to the shins. Always think about putting strikes into your escape.

    Although grappling needs to be a big part of your training, it should not be your first response (unless you're already on the ground).
     

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