Glover Teixeira believes most brain damage happens in the gym, not in a fight

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by RaKzaroK, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/2/5...s-most-brain-damage-happens-in-the-gym-not-in

    As the title says, in a interview (visit the link and you'll see the video) , Teixeira explains how, in his opinion, most brain damage in combat sports happens during training and not during the actual fight.

    He states that a competitive fighter who participates at high level fights etc, usually spars pretty hard many days a week and trains everyday, while the real fight is only some minutes - with 100% intensity of course-.

    He also adds that grappling,chokes,locks etc help with the prevention of brain damage, as it not necessary to KO your enemy only with punches / kicks.

    What's your opinion people?

    Also, I'd like to ask everyone here who is practicing a full contact MA non-competitively, how often do you take a hard shot that dazes you and this dizziness is visible?

    I mean,a "hard shot" by which you don't get knocked out but stop because you're dizzy and you're feeling unwell for like a minute a two, but then you're good to go.

    If someone doesn't care about competition, only about enhancing his martial skillset, how often should a hit like this be considered a "normal" occurence?

    How powerful/forceful should a hit be to trigger brain damage?

    I'm asking because, after some short research, most medical sites follow this line:

    "Brain damage can happen even if there is no knock out, but just a bump/hit/fall etc."

    This seems pretty akward to me, because I'm pretty sure that every kid in this world must have fallen like 1000 times flat with it's head, add to that accidental headbutts/hits during football/basketball/rugby/other sports/just playing, well, if it was SO EASY to get brain damage then most people would be comatose by now, in my opinion.

    So, I'd like some real life advice like "If you're not getting unconscious frequently, don't worry" or something like that, because if you follow doctors' advice you shouldn't get outside of your home or generally have contact with other people.
     
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Hmm...maybe. There's certainly a lot of potential for damage during training.
    Once a month probably, and most of the time, that's from judo, rather than Muay Thai.
    As infrequently as possible. There's not really a need to train at an intensity where that kind of blow is likely to occur if you aren't training for full contact competition and even then, you wouldn't want it to happen very often because concussions mean missed training.
    Any shot that 'rings your bell' is doing damage.
    You must have been a very clumsy child if you hit your head hard 100 times, let alone 1000. It's not an exact science, very gentle knocks likely wont do any damage at all, and damage often builds on damage, so if you take two big knocks in a short period, the damage will be more than twice as severe as the sum of two knocks taken over a long period.

    That said, one hard knock can kill you, or worse, leave you profoundly disabled.
    No one can honestly tell you not to worry, but the risk of getting brain damage from sensible martial arts training is a lot lower than the risk of suffering brain damage in a car crash. That's not going to stop you driving though, right?
     
  3. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    This means exactly what?
    Just getting dizzy / feeling the shot the moment of impact, getting dizzy for a minute or two, getting knocked out, what?
    That's what I fail to understand.

    I've sparred many times only getting hit by backfist and ridge hand strikes with semi-contact power output, and even with those, a good hit would daze me for some moments, during the impact and some seconds later.
    Similarly, when I stroke someone with a good backfist/ridge hand, I could see that it certainly was unpleasant.
    I can compare those hits to a really good slap.
    Is this kind of hits one that 'rings your bell'?

    I've sparred 3-4 times with boxing gloves and full-contact but of course with low power output, and a good hook, even if you defended perfectly with your arm, would daze you just for the moment of the impact and some seconds later. A jab at your forehead even at, like, 20-40% intensity, would also daze you for a moment or two.
    Are those hits that 'rings your bell'?

    It was an hyperbole. Thanks for the advice!

    That's right!
    Thanks for answering everything man :)
     
  4. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    Also, anyone else?
     
  5. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Fight for 15 minutes tops, train daily for months. Makes sense to me. Add in using headguards at the gym and the fact that you're less likely to get knocked clean out and I don't find that hard to believe at all.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Say whaaaaat?
    Low power output = semi contact surely?

    Personally I'd say it's very tricky to separate training from competing.
    I don't think even the hardest training in the world would replicate what JDS took fighting Cain (twice!).
    You just couldn't sustain that for training.
     
  7. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That's an outlier example though. Its a fight that a large number of people thought should've been stopped after the 2nd round
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It is an extreme example but pretty much every fight card has someone in a match that sustains far more damage than they'd be able to manage over a 6-8 week camp.

    As I see it getting reguarly dinged and slightly dazed is bad for your brain just as getting majorly KO'd and pounded in a fight is.
    You can't have one without the other so it's pretty pointless trying to separate the two.
    If training causes more damage than the fight what are people going to do?
    Fight without doing any training? :)
     
  9. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    Where I live, most times semi contact means you can't hit at certain places, for example the face, and where you hit it's not with a lot of intensity, while full-contact means you can hit pretty much everywhere with more intensity.

    Of course not, nobody said that you should fight without training, just train safely.
    Though, I think that this is pretty much impossible and/or counterproductive (at a certain percentage) if you are a competitive fighter.

    Could you guys answer at my own questions too?
     
  10. Risin1

    Risin1 Valued Member

    My two cents:
    I thought this myself for a long time now. I've been rocked more times in training than I ever have in competition.
     
  11. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I would say it's absolutely right. There's no need to get hit in the head more than need be. If you are a competitive fighter I understand that's part of it, but as I've stated a few times in the boxing forum that if these guys, both boxers and MMA fighters worked as hard on their defense as on sparring and getting hit more, they would be much better off.
     
  12. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    That sounded a bit like you were accusing boxers and MMA fighters of not working on their defence enough. Do you want to rephrase?
     
  13. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    No, because a lot of both boxers and MMA fighters use their face to block punches, you can't keep doing that and think you might not wind up a vegetable later on. Defense should be worked on just as much or more than offense.

    MMA fighters largely suck as boxers. I constantly would hear about Nick Diaz' boxing skills being so great and then he spars with a 10-0 Omar Henry and not only does he get schooled, but he doesn't even look like he's boxed in his life. There's a lot of guys with good head movement and such, but to call them boxers is an insult to a professional boxers.
     
  14. Risin1

    Risin1 Valued Member

    Have you ever actually trained with MMA fighters or boxers? Im guessing not based on your post. To say people of any discipline block with their face is ridiculous. Nobody likes getting hit in the face. There is always defense weather it be to cover up, head movement, body movement or actual blocking, or parying, there is always something. The fact that they get hit is purley based on law of average. you cant defend everything (unless you are a machine). When hard sparring is involved of course shots are going to get through, its pretty much give and take. If you think you are not going to get hit regardless of what martial art you train, when you involve hard sparring or even actual fighting, you are delusional.
     
  15. Heikki Mustola

    Heikki Mustola Valued Member

    Some fighters do hard sparring quite often, there was an article about brain damage in MMA and it focused on a fighter who's name I dont remember. Anyways, he said how often his wife couldn't understand what he was talking when he came from the practice (and had some hard sparring sessions), he was mumbling and forgetting things

    Also, some teams are notorious for having really hard sparring sessions, ie. Chute Boxe. There were people even getting knocked out, or at least that's what I have heard

    Some boxers spar hard for so long in their career that it must have great impact in their brain. Sparring is very important for fighters, but I myself dont like the idea of having hard sparring sessions too often
     
  16. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    why not? Were you sparring that day?
     
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    All you really have to do is look at statistics. How often does Mayweather get his vs ALL of his previous opponents? How often did Sweet Pea get hit? There's a list of boxers a mile long who were know for their excellent defense. Part natural gift of reflexes? Possibly yes. Much of it from training? I would say yes, even more so. Trainer who doesn't focus much on defense? Yep, probably has a lot to do with it as well.

    Hannibal and I both know Ricky Hatton very well (as far as his style though he knows him personally), but we could both tell you Ricky got hit a lot more because? Ever heard when an announcer uses the term "take 2 or 3 to give 1"? A lot of fighters have that mentality and believe it or not, after you have been used to getting hit in multiple fights... it doesn't matter nearly as much to them as you might think. The reality is that the fighters who use as much time working on gloves up, head down AND movement will get hit far less than the guy who works largely on his offense.
     
  18. Heikki Mustola

    Heikki Mustola Valued Member

    I dont have a good memory to begin with ;) And my name memory... Well, let's not talk about that.

    It was quite an interesting article though, I found the link in sherdog
     
  19. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Question, have you ever actually boxed?

    A lot of boxers, who I have met and trained with, have defensive game in their offensive (how they positions their body when they punch in order to minimize counters). True, boxers often "take one to give" one but that is often a conditional necessity; I can't think of a single style of fighting that wouldn't have that happen now and again. If you are not willing to risk being countered then the only way you can do that with 100% safety is really to just not punch at all. At some point, especially if the opponent is throwing a large volume of punches, you will have to "trade" blows or at the very least risk it.

    This does not mean their defense is poor, in fact what often allows top boxers to trade blows is their ability to maintain a solid defense while attacking that minimizes both the effects and risk of being whacked in the head.

    I can't think of a single boxer who actually TRAINS to take blows as a set part of a game plan; there are plenty of boxers that have shown a willingness to take a blow for the strategic pay off of getting to swing with their own but few that get hit simply because they can't defend or don't intend to AFAIK.

    Can you perhaps name one boxer who trains/fights like that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  20. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    To finalize my thoughts, could you guys answer my questions (on posts #1 and #3) and share your thoughts / opinions?
     

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