Why would you participate in this school where 99.999999% suck ? I guess you believe you are a part of the 0.000000001% then ? And if not, then why wouldn't you instead want to be a part of an art where 99% of people did not suck? Makes no rational sense. Actually, it might make sense to you, but in reality its extremely odd to the rest of humanity. And I'm sure you will say you are fine with that. As it is what you have been taught. C'est la vie
It's not a school? It's an organization. I don't really care much for the organization, I care for the art - and from what I have seen and experienced of the art, it does not suck and compares to nothing else. Definitely not, but I do believe that my teacher is part of that number, and I do strive to, through continuous practice, to also one day be part of that number. Because I like this art. It's as simple as that. I care about my own practice and that is enough for me. I've tasted a few different soups and this is the soup I like, that's why I eat it. If all sushi places in the world would serve poisoned fish, except for one restaurant that makes amazing, fresh and good sushi, can you not go to that place and have it? Can you not say that your favorite food is sushi just because other places serve it bad? Is that rational enough for you?
SeattleTCJ posted Theres an old sufi saying that goes "Where there is fools gold there is real gold" or is it the other way round? No matter it means the same either way. The problem for me is how do you know you have found the real gold when everyone says that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Please Reality says theres no quality control problems in the Bujinkan as the shihan have quality in Japan which pretty much say its really doesn't matter about quality outside of those few select individuals in the Hombu. I really hope thats not true. For me as well its about being tarred with the same brush. Why would anyone want to be a part of an organisation where 99.9% of its members suck, surely you would want to be part of an organisation where no members suck, and whilst I take the view that you like the art, you don't necesarily have to be part of the organisation. Why after all be part of the orgainsation? So you can get the lessons? sure but you can always go to Bujinkan seminars you don't always have to be a member, and of course you can do Genbukan, Jinenkan, TSD ones too. So you can get a grade? But grades are worthless and mean nothing (so I hear) so why bother? Sure you need to join so you have a teacher who teaches you the hidden lessons that you wouldn't get if you weren't his student, but how do you know he's teaching real gold, and not fools gold? And how do you know if in the time (Usually pretty small time) he had in Japan he actually learnt any real hidden secrets. Of course Faith, because he told you so, or from your perspective he seems good. But its not really a good measuring stick for quality is it. Ok i'm just being a bit of a devils advocate here, and I appreciate why people become members of the Bujinkan, which I won't go into here but i'm hoping you can see where i'm coming from and why some people choose to be independant.
Learn the art from seminars? I don't think you'll ever learn much by just going to occasional seminars.
Probably by verifying the connection to the source.* Most people aren't in the loop as far as the nine ryuha are concerned. For them (us) it doesn't matter if one guy's wrong and the other's right, what matters is how we go about living with the consequences resulting from the decisions we've made regarding our training. You do if you want access to the source.* That's why I've been coming to think that we should apply the same formula as the other, non-Japanese MA organization I'm part of - all grading is voluntary, and you more or less have to wade through hell to pass. * I imagine I might be thanked for this post even though I don't want to. This, in turn, brings me to another issue that's more or less ignored nowadays - if you have access to the source, and it does absolutely bubkes to help you improve as a person, is it really worth it? I probably don't have to tell you how I feel about the matter.
Because Hatsumi Sensei is the actual, only next in line that inherited Takamatsu sensei's schools and movement. Period. And that is worth it. I will probably not survive this remark, but there you have it. If you do not agree, fine, but this is the reason some of us are in the Booj and not in the GBK/JNK. Regards, Tom.
Sorry what is all this stuff about the source people on here are talking about as though its like having access to and acheiving the ultimate secret of martial arts. Theres a lot of people who have access to the source (Richard van Donk, Kaceem Zoughari, Simon Yeo, Papa San etc) and all I see is a lot of people slagging off those people who have access to the source as being crap or not understanding the lesson. This leaves me with one conclusion. Just because you have reached the source, it does not guarantee anything especially when even low grades on here can see the apparant mistakes in their movement or understanding of the art.
@ TomD Sorry but I don't think for one iota that the way that Hatsumi teaches is the way that Takamatsu taught.
Thats probably the truth, I agree. The issue being, if 99.9999% of people aren't in the loop, and they "suck", where does that leave you? Probably one of the "suckers" who "suck", right? Doesn't that make you feel good about yourself? :evil: Everyone claims to be apart from the "suck". Its not us, its everybody else. But in reality its not possible for everyone to be in the mythical 0.00001%. So, do you agree that you, and your instructors suck? Can I get a raise of hands?
Getting a slap on the back, a nickname that either nominates you as a pimp or an idiot and/or a shiny gold thingy is not the same as receiving worthwile instruction. You realize that, right? You're not just creating strawmen for the sake of it?
The people who had/have access to the source have particular Hapanese ranks and particular skills that go with those ranks that they received after long dedicated training at said source. No getting rank before they deserved or were ready for it back in the days, no fame, injuries and stories to match were their only accolades. What they experienced and gained through their experience can't be gotten through a seminar or yearly trips or a few years dabbling. Those who doubt are always willing to try naturally.
Exactly, I'm also sure your teacher is an astute judge of character and has taught you in the manner he feels that you are thoroughly deserving of. I mean, I can't imagine you being any less disrespectful and condescending in the dojo IRL than you are here, that wouldn't make sense.
And in the above comment, you've captured what I feel is the essence of the problem in the Bujinkan. The ranks, the nicknames, all the positive reinforcement is a sham. I was fortunate in that I was told early-on, the complements don't matter, in fact are a blow-off, it's when the Japanese tell you you're fecal matter, then show you the right way, you're really learning. And with rank, sham or not, comes the right to teach, ad nauseum. Unfortunately, only a small percentage seem to recognize this, the bulk of the Bujinkan seem to believe the sham.
Will, the point is....you said that 99.99999% of the practitioners suck. Yet you revere the headmaster. But, who is the one who taught all those sucky suckers ??!!! I doubt you would say that the Jinenkan is made up of 99.99999% suck. You could potentially be surrounded by highly skilled individuals in that organization, and still practice the "art" you love. It would probably jive with your interest in the more traditional way things are done as well. Are Manaka sensei and Ishizuka sensei really that separated in their understanding of the Takamatsu-den arts? Yet, I doubt thats good enough. Because it would seem like you may be more concerned with a perceived, more direct "connection" to a lineage. Regardless of the actual fact that you are not really a part of that lineage, by your own admission ! Nor will you benefit from the "actual lineage", being it gets passed to such a small circle. In Kacem's words...transmission is from soke to his one successor. Right? I assume you believe Kacem is more "in the loop" then even long time Japan resident gaijin. Maybe he is, BUT maybe he isnt. I'm partly playing devils advocate here BTW. Just trying to flesh out your argument. You agree with the notion that really only a select few, in some cases just one person....is all that needs to be taught "the real deal". In that case, what exactly is the point of this art even existing for the masses? What makes your teacher, a French dude, any more special in the grand scheme of "passing on the true art", then any Japan resident gaijin ? It seems like if you REALLY wanted to be involved in the inner circle, you would look to someone like Doug Wilson who I would argue is much closer to the "source" then your teacher. But you dont. Because he is probably not selling what you are wanting to buy. No disrespect intended. I understand the quandary. I also love the "art". But instead of saying most practitioners suck, I would rather say that the teaching methodology sucks. Class structure sucks, and the expectations suck. Certainly there are many talented individuals in the art. I see them as completely wasted and untapped potential. The bar is set extremely low. Most people dont know any better, because they trust their teachers !!! That does not give them a completely free pass though, as individuals are ultimately responsible for their own growth. Comes back to what is the true motivation behind your involvement in the organization/art? Given there are alternate choices out there who train in the same arts. Sorry for the long post. I obviously got on a roll :bow1: P.S I assume your answer will be " I enjoy the art. And I trust my teacher. That is good enough for me". In that case, La vie continue.
What does the above have to do with the topic? If you want to learn character go to the Boy Scouts. The ryu of traditional Japanese martial arts were often concerned with better ways to kill others. Of course they did so based on the rules and conventions of the day and part of Japan they were based. Whence course they all wrote many great ideals that have been passed down to this day but remember they were killers, thieves, and often rapists(not all of course).
