From a TaiJiQuan application, you can use associated techniques (forces, contact change intensifiers - sometimes labelled 'secrets', Qi Na locking, evasion, boxing, bridging, pining, timing etc) to develop execution. Once this established to some degree, there is something of a contextual reference point to start examining and optimising some aspects of weight change, joint alignment, tactility; by way of chaining some Form elements and distinctly internal Neigong (repetition of concurrent endurance based joint combinations - to keep words simple) and maybe DaoYin in some Bagauzhang. Without the application context, talk of 'internal' and 'mechanics' is kind of meaningless, as so much has to be there first, before you can add in and deepen these aspects. I meet some folk who think applications are 'Sanshou'. Personally I find this misleading.
I listed the 3 levels not to far back. Which one was not clear.? [A better choice would be, using the three internal levels: basic, using internal muscles to create external forces, middle: internal muscles synchronized and completely integrated so only intent is required, advanced: no mind, body automatically responds to external forces, neutralizing and counterattacking. In internal there are three distinct methods, sense force, counter by use of five vectors, strike using combinations of five shock powers ,, bridge, stick, follow to nullify incoming power, strike using shock wave generated in lower tian, Bridge, nullify incoming power by stepping, unbalance opponent by rapid change of force vector at point of contact, strike using internal expansion.I have found 'chi', internal cultivation is necessary to achieve levels above basic but the method differs from that used for cultivating external projected energy .][/QUOTE]
I am sure that names can be applied to many moves, I don't use names, only a few wing chun hands for teaching references, like he says in that video , what ever point of contact happens first , you apply through that point, no special names or moves.
Reading that now Robin, you are as about as clear as you will ever get, so some minor applause there. If you have to 'cultivate' Cheese, then best of luck to you. However FWIW, I rate developing movement - including double-weight avoidance, as the best way to issue more diffuse power more efficiently AND you start to avoid being hit, so that your hits hit percussively, the opponent more effectively.
If you have no names, no contextual reference; and you stand about like sitting ducks like Mizner's opponents - you run the risk of getting blatted. Tin jin listening through meeting arms is not enough - because their is no development of movement. Like that with weaponry and you will end up a kebabed bacon sandwich. To understand movement and its martial usage optimally - against 1 or more attackers - armed or unarmed; it is best to have very specific named contexts to study; as very small differences in relative position, evasional stepping, interceptive entering of opponent space, escape, rythym and timing; can give you a context and edge to work on. Context is everything.
No I listed several styles I am exceptionally well versed in In addition to my own Sifu who is a Chen Stylist I will be training with Sifu Arnold Tayam again in August Who have you trained with again? Refusal to answer will confirm your lack of training because what you are actually posting is pretty much nonsense As for my training in JKD, I am concerned primarily with what actually works in a fight....something else you seem to have no experience of Taking a simple one then, have you ever boxed? Because you display zero idea of how they actually punch
Our association to chen style is through Zhang Xuexin in S.F. , he was the senior student of Feng Zhiquang. What works in a fight?, that is a subjective at best, if you let it get that far you probably are literally fighting. I like it more to the art of fighting without fighting.
Thanks for the info....though quite wjy you couldnt share that before is a bit baffling. I have little to no choice in most fights - its an occupational hazard You may have missed my edit above, but I will reiterate - have you ever boxed?
I'll get back to the other points, but just wanted to clarify this: Are you talking about using rotation in this manner? [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgQzAu281jo"]Tai Chi Chuan Punching - YouTube[/ame]
I did 10 years of kenpo karate, called bok-fu before wing chun, we did all the full contact sparring with the bruce lee gloves and full kicking stuff. Good exercise, not pratical in real life.
This is the difference between us. You think, I know. The kuen kuit are the definitive guide to Wing Chun. If you can't read Chinese you can stop with trying to out source-material me right now. If you can, you can reference specific material. I'm a 3rd Generation Wing Chun instructor. You have issues explaining your points and you're resorting to an attack because of it. One of these things is not like the other. Let's not get into an argument about what chi is or is not. I for one would love to see you try to prove it exists but that is a different argument (and thread) entirely. I, and many others, don't need chi development to punch you in the face effectively. What we DO need are developed and practiced body mechanics. Chigung as translating the characters 氣功 in technical detail is the coordination of breath and body movement. Not magical hocus pocus. My sigung carved the kuen kuit chops at the request of Ip Man, was his private student for 15 years until his death, and was one of the most respected, technical, and educated of the first generation of Ip Man's students. Remind me who your Sifu is again? Oh right you've been asked that question multiple times and responded with nonsense. No it's not. Internal in this case is a cop out because you don't have a grasp of the mechanics. I can and do explain the mechanics of how Wing Chun structure and power generation works. You've been throwing out a bunch of hogwash, guesswork, and nothing concrete. It seems like you want to believe in magical nonsense that makes your style more special than everyone else's.
1. I'm not 2. I left enough clues that even the people here who don't do wing chun would be able to figure out who I'm talking about 3. You have once again failed to respond to specific points. Who is your instructor again?
Wing Chun instructor Kenneth Chung In 93, Ken , I and 2 others met up with Toi Shan Tin in Hong Kong, he was using internal then., we had a little of it, but not nowing the difference at that time.
So the answer is "never" That figures because the way you think they punch is based on guesswork not praxis
I don't think so, but maybe. I believe that we all share the same power generating mechanics. However, the difference is in which of these mechanics our body is hardwired to depend most on. Hard style systems almost never talk about using torque or the "lead with the waist" principle for power generation. I believe this is what Cloudz is refering to. Basically you stretch the muscles/tendons in the opposite direction of the movement to create torque. In this case the stretch is at the waist. For understanding torque, imagine wringing a wet towel to squeeze the water out of it. You twist in opposite directions to create torque. If you instead rotate everything in the same direction, you would not create much torque and the water would remain in the towel. This torque is NOT talked about in many systems, although you can see it being used in some techniques even if not talked about. The following is one of my favorite examples of this concept as explained in "hard style" terms of the double-hip movement: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HpsoE4CjUU"]knockout punch - YouTube[/ame] You can create torque by opening the hips to stretch the muscles/tendons in the opposite direction just prior to unleashing the power. In soft-style, you can learn this by "leading with the breath". In other words, you change from inhale to exhale slightly before you change the direction the hands are moving. In finer details, you are using the hands as the ball at the end of a pendulum and the torque created at the waist by opening and closing the hips is acting as the "force of gravity". At least this is how I understand it.
Well I would not say that, full contact fighting is just boxing and kicking combined, punching practice is boxing practice, heavy bag, speed bag, bungy cord bag ect., .....
basic anatomy/physiology data: myotatic reflex: muscles have specialized fibers with nerve connections leading to and from the spinal cord (separate from the ones involved in voluntary control). muscles have muscle spindles, which, when stretched suddenly, cause excitatory feedback and cause the muscle to contract harder. this is what happens when docs take a tiny hammer to your patella tendon and your quadriceps is stretched, and is why telegraphed movements and big wind up motions are natural (they actually are stronger). tendons have the inverse myotatic reflex, governed by the golgi tendon organ, which causes a muscle to relax when it's contracting against a strong force (as i understand it, basically non energy dependent muscular failure), to help prevent damage to the tendon or bone. ligaments are bone-bone attachments and to my knowledge have no such thing, nor, i believe, do fascia, whih surround and compartmentalize, although both are also part of the passive forces acting on the body, in a force transference capacity rather than force generation/application (what muscles do). muscles contract, pulling on tendon, fascia, bone and ligament; tendon pulls bone, bone pulls ligament and joint, which pull bone, fascia pulls on everything, rock crushes scissors and spock disproves paper. also of note is that muscle activation (which determines movement) is as far as i know overwhelmingly determined by intended motion, rather than muscles being individually activated on purpose. this is where i believe the main value of the nebulous language of IMA lies, when done right, as it results in the correct intent (or yi, if you will) to make your body move right. problem is it's nebulous and stuff like this thread ends up happening inevitably because of it.
About 10 days back, this thread was doing ok, now it is back to bodge-do. The fud of Cheese on top of mechanics, internal/external etc; is almost universal on internet discussion forums. There are a few decent articles you can read e.g. Jarek Symanskys chinafrominside.com, but open discussion always ends up like this, especially when folk wander along talking holier than thou claptrap from 'the classics'->internal-> eventually (2.5 years later after about 50-100 questions : "who is your teacher?") into wing chun->yang taiji->chi gong->chen taiji.
