General Curiosity on Weapons...

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Ansgar Eriksson, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Not the full vids no. It's something he explains on the instructionals about power striking IIRC.

    There's not much to argue with in this short clip and he twirls quite a bit.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5fha3vZzCc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5fha3vZzCc[/ame]
     
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Yes, it could, if you've not been taught properly or haven't trained it properly :rolleyes:
     
  3. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Yes, many people do. But it doesn't follow that twirling is just flash. It only follows that people are drawn to the twirling. That they don't immediately see it as anything other than flash is just a matter of lack of experience.

    We also need to draw a distinction between different kinds of "twirling." There are certainly movements that are more or less functional. And it often takes a trained eye to know one from the other.
     
  4. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Everyone seems to have covered most of the benefits of "twirling" here already and the potential pitfalls if you don't understand it's purpose or train it properly, however, here's my 2p.

    I find "twirling" (assumed to be a weapon motion pivoting primarily around the wrist) to be highly effective in:

    - distraction (to disguise a strike or range change)
    - redirection (if I need to change an angle and have limited opportunity for body rotation)
    - striking (OF COURSE this is unlikely to be a finishing shot (unless it's a well targeted blade), but distraction hits set up the big hits...)

    Looking at it more generally in the context of an impact weapon, any angular striking motion is generated from: the fingers (a bit extreme, but valid for the theoretical exercise), wrist, elbow, shoulder, rotation of the upper body, rotation of the hips, pushing with the legs and moving of the feet.
    All of these, individually or together, take a different amount of time , need a certain body positioning to be useful, and generate a different amount of power. So, a "twirl" is most commonly from the wrist, but can also be from the elbow.

    Theory aside, this is why it is vital to have resistance and impact drills/exercises - hit some tyres to feel the difference in striking power generation, try it in sparring and bloomin' well understand why you do it!*

    *This last point actually applies to everything, ever.

    Harry
     
  5. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Do you understand why some arts (Doce Pares for example) have twirling as part of the system?
     
  6. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    Some strikes, like the abaniko or the witik can be seen as twirling if they miss or is used to gauge distance and reaction of the opponent. Some contradas look like twirling if they miss the opponent's weapon. Floretes, seen as twirling, is actually a redoble off of a primary attack and is generally looking to land a secondary target.

    In general twirling is also a sign of being quick (think how a gazelle bounds when threatened by a lioness. showing strength and quickness).

    Also, since hands are considered primary targets, twirling keeps your hands moving.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Now there's an excellent point that hadn't been raised yet.
     
  8. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    yes there is if you do it incorrectly hence I said don't strangle the stick and it is not all wrist movement. Actually is more body and arm mechanics with a nice loose grip and very little wrist involved. You only tighten your grip on impact with a solid object eg their weapon or them this then generates a snapping action coupled with using the whole body to strike and only striking with the tip it is like being hit with a bullet.
     
  9. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Both these statements tell me 2 things. 1 your not doing or can't do it properly and 2 you don't understand it's purposes many of which have already been covered.

    Generation of power. Redirection. Misdirection. Flowing combination strikes. Removal of obstructions eg their weapon. Correct body mechanics. And much more.
     
  10. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Your doing it wrong ;) and the tactical advantage does exist used it countless times.

    Oh I forgot to ask you started a post back in 2009 about the mysterious Blue Cupboard Group ( mmm that name sounds familiar? ) anyway they were according to you about to embark on evaluating the FMA Instructors in the UK? So how is their evaluation going??? As they have yet to appear or are the cupboard doors closed on that one ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  11. structure

    structure New Member

    Yep , I struggle with it, can you recommended anybody on youtube who does it correctly
     
  12. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    On YouTube for the most part no not really.

    But then its something you need to feel not simply watch. But that goes for a lot of things in FMA.

    Correct study under the right instructor videos are just memory joggers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  13. structure

    structure New Member

    Ok will check out
     
  14. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    as many countless generations of guro have said time and again:

    "MOVE YOUR HAND HOY!"
     
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Hahaha yes. I had that shouted at me many times and I hear me shouting it now :)

    All to often when some says its doesn't work or its weak etc you often find the reason is their doing it wrong and yes invariable they need to 'MOVE YOUR HAND HOY'. ;)
     
  16. Kenko Enso

    Kenko Enso Valued Member

    The information put out has been very interesting. Could you elaborate more on what they meant by "Move your hand"?
     
  17. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    In FMA, the hand is regarded as a primary target. Part of the "defanging the snake" meme. We're programmed to protect our heads, our crackers, etc. But we don't tend to think about keeping our hands out of harm's way. But in FMA, the reasoning is that, if you compromise the opponent's ability to hold a weapon or punch you (by, say, breaking that hand with your stick), your problem is largely solved.

    So, much like boxers are trained to keep their head in motion at all times, to make it a harder target, FMA guys are trained to keep their hand moving.
     
  18. Kenko Enso

    Kenko Enso Valued Member

    Neat! Makes a lot of sense.
     
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Wish I'd absorbed that lesson prior to competing in a WEKAF tournament in San Francisco back in the day. My first match was against a largo mano fighter. (This is a tactic especially favoured at the largo mano--or long--range.) My hand and forearm was one uniform bruise by the time my next match started. And I "won" that bout. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I don't know about other weapon arts, but escrima is usually weapon side forward. So the hand is the closest target, even if you don't get a defang. Makes sense to hit it.

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, the largo mano guys seem especially good at evading and taking out the hands...in my limited experience.
     

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