Does anyone here train in this? How does Genbukan Hakkesho and so on vary from what is more conventionally taught as Baguazhang?
yea, me neither. always these different Kenpo styles arise. BTW, can you give us additional info on it?
this thread should be moved to that of the ninjers http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site.pl?chugoku this is tanemura's style..... this thread should be moved and the OP will get far better info
It purportedly is a composite of Japanized baguazhang sub-styles (hakkesho), but that's about all I could figure. Possibly, or possibly not. I'm aware that it's Tsunehisa "Shoto" Tanemura's style, but it is not related to any of his Ninpo arts, and I'm not sure that there's necessarily an overlap in students between those who practice Hakkesho and Kenpo versus those who practice his brand of Ninpo, so I didn't post it there. It's not related or relevant to the arts practiced in Ninpo, so I didn't post it in the Ninjutsu forum. Oh god it finally happened! On-topic posts!!! Mine, pacificshore's, and Kenpo_Iz_Active's, of course.
Eh? This is obviously an attempt at a joke. You might want to start by actually being funny, and posting joke posts in the Jokes forum. For the rest of the posters in the Kenpo forum and preferably any active practitioners of Genbukan Chugoku Kenpo, any information? Or, if anyone's familiar with other forms of Hakkesho, how does it vary from other Kenpo or from Chinese Baguazhang?
BS, I still cannot find much on Hakkesho or other forms of it, so perphaps it is just a sub-sect of Tanemura's ?
Hakkesho isn't anything he's invented. It's one of many Japanese interpretations of kung fu (Tai-ki-ken, which is AFAIK a Taijiquan/Karate hybrid, would be another example. A bit of google-jitsu on that style uncovered this link).
i sense a ninjer looking to validate the concocted mythical roots of his teacher let me save you time if you can not trace a lineage.. decide for yourself the man's merit or move on if you question his integrity or honesty.. well then decide if you can live with the doubt.. because you'll never EVER get a straight answer from these woops! thats the problem with these guys.. they begin to believe their own stuff the result are supermen... fictitious posers with rubbish stories find a teacher who is honest.. trains hard and pushes you forget tanemura.. unless your headed to japan.... he will not be your teacher.. just a figurehead..... some of his students are good teachers.. no need to validate his obvious stuff.... as long as you can stand the hero worship crap my advice is a good judo club or a BJJ school.... you know you have to learn when you tap tap tap... if you want to strike.. try boxing or MT...... you'll never go validating people again when you can see their records and spend all your time being bested for real but.. to each their own
Nope, I am not and have never been any student of Mr. Tanemura. I am quite aware of the matter of who Mr. Tanemura's instructors are and of the opinion of the mainstream of Japanese arts regarding them. Nor is Mr. Tanemura the only kenpo instructor in the world. I am asking about kenpo. Stay on topic and stop wasting everyone's time. Huh? I wasn't under the impressions that judo, "BJJ", boxing, or "MT" involved any Kenpo in them.
my point... is that neither does genbukan hakkesho it's made up drivel.... a subset created because it can not be validated an offshoot in one direction likely he took a year and decided to morph it with earlier/later training and renamed what he studied open your eyes.... nothing you've asked.. as I've stated from the beginning have a damn thing to do with Kenpo except to use it as a credential without actually earning one he can cite
It doesnt, its Baguazhang, taught via a japanese person, hence the japanese names, it has no connection to what is taught in the USA as american kempo/kenpo. There is some of his chinese arts shown here: [ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oVhPFyGMA1M[/ame] lineage stuff here: http://www.jujutsu.com/jujutsu/html02/n-english.htm 2. Ba Gua Zhang (from Li Zi Ming and Pei Xi Rong) Ba Gua Zhang was founded by Dong Hai Chuan, who lived 1797 ~ 1882. The names Kai (Sea), and later Kai Chuan (Sea-river) were taken by Dong at some point in his life, and were not his original names. He was born in Henan Province, in the village of Zhu Jia Wu, 25 li from the larger city of Wen An. He excelled at martial arts from a young age, learning many different kinds of arts and weapons. He is said to have had a dynamic, exuberant personality, and to have valued highly righteousness and justice. Dong traveled different lands searching out skilled teachers until finally he came to Jiu Hua mountain in An Hui Province. There he met Hua Cheng Xia (elder of Gong Lian), who is also sometimes called the hermit Yu Pan. Dong Hai Chuan studied with Hua for eight years, and when they parted he was told, In my art, the turning palm constitutes form, and the various techniques constitute use. Perfect this and none under heaven will stand against you. Use what I taught only for virtue. Dong Hai Chuan soon perfected the techniques he had learned from Hua. He is also said to have learned from his teacherÕs friend, Guo Yuan Ji, and. Finally, Dong met Fu Yi Shi, who taught him the I Ching eight trigrams and sixty-four outcomes (8 X 8 = 64). On this model Dong invented the 64 forms of Ba Gua Zhang, which can be combined in infinite variation. Dong Hai Chuan most loved the Yin-Yang Claw, and never lost a match with it. He named his new art laying-Body Eight Trigram Consecutive Palm, and went to Beijing to teach it. In Beijing, he was seen by Su Qin Wang and picked out to serve in the Su Wang government by teaching and serving on the Royal Guard, beginning with Su Qin Wang himself. Dong attained high position within the government, becoming a respected and sought-after teacher. Some of his more famous pupils include Cheng Ting Hua, Liang Zhen Pu, Ma Wei Si, Liu Feng Chun, Zong Yong Xiang, Zong Chang Rong, and Yin Fu. Li Cun Yi and Zhang Zhan Kui, famous practictioners of Hsing I Chuan, were also students of DongÕs. DongÕs disciples were in general accomplished martial artists when they came to him, and so for each he crafted a new style of Ba Gua Zhang suited to that studentÕs abilities and to the characteristics of the art he already knew. Dong lived until 1882, dying at the age of eighty-five. He was buried outside the East Gate in Beijing with four stone markers at his grave site, on which his accomplishments and the names of his highest disciples were engraved. This grave site, however, was destroyed by the Red Army in the Great Cultural Revolution. It was rebuilt in 1982 in the western suburb of Peking, Xi Jiao to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Dong death by the Ba Gua Zhang lineage holders Li Zi Ming, Pei Xi Rong, Zhou Zun Fo, and Sha Guo Zheng. Ba Gua Zhang is ChinaÕs newest major martial art. It uses the open palm, not the fist, and it derives its theoretical grounding from the I Ching. The Ba Gua Zhang practitioner walks on a circle on which the Yin/Yang symbol is inscribed, performing eight different palm changes, or forms, which are then broken down into eight techniques each, thus conforming to the 8 X 8 = 64 pattern of the I Ching. The body of the Ba Gua Zhang practitioner is likened to a dragonÕs body for the supple, sinuous quality of motion it takes on and for the light, evasive foot-work and quick changes of direction that are required, mastery of all of which is said to require many years of training. Ba Gua Zhang also has several unique weapons, such as the Deer-Horned Knives. In the arts written transmissions are Dong Hai Chuan 36 Songs and 48 Verses, which are so cryptic that interpretations of them by his disciples are also passed down. My father has translated them into Japanese, but says that they are difficult to understand without knowledge of the I Ching, Chinese Medicine, and Taoism. The first style of Ba Gua Zhang that my father learned was Cheng Ting Hua style, which was taught to him by Wang Shu Jin, who received it from Chen Pan-Ling, and which included the 8 Palms and the Double Sword. Later, he learned an older form of Cheng style from Zhou Zu Fo in Beijing, the forms of which are slightly different. He also learned the Yin Fu style Palms, Double-Headed Spear, Straight Sword, and Broadsword. From Pei Xi Rong he learned the 64 Partner Excercises and Liu style Ba Gua Zhang. Finally, my father came studied under Li Zi Ming, Chairman of the Beijing Ba Gua Zhang Research Society. From Li he learned Liang Zhen Pu Ba Bua Palms and weapons, received the oral transmissions, and became a 4th generation lineage holder of Ba Gua Zhang. Lineages are shown below: Dong Hai Chuan ( Cheng Ting Hua ( Cheng Hai ___ ( Chen Pan-Ling FWang Shu Jin ( Sato Kinbei and Dong Hai Chuan ( Liang Zhen Pu (2nd generation lineage holder)( Li Zi Ming (3rd generation lineage holder) ( Sato Kinbei (4th generation lineage holder) and Dong Hai Chuan ( Yin Fu ( Yin Yu Zhang ( Pei Xi Rong ( Sato Kinbei and Dong Hai Chuan ( Yin Fu ( Zhang Yi Zhong ( Sato Kinbei
It's not especially controversial. It's Chinese martial arts -- the name Chugoku Kempo means "Chinese martial arts." IIRC Tanemura has verified teachers. It's not the kind of kempo that this forum really talks about. That video looks really odd in CMA terms though.
