Full contact or Non Full Contact

Discussion in 'Karate' started by MisterMcDojo, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    Hello everyone. I'm just curious in regards to the benefits in training in full contact karate, and the benefits in training in non-full contact karate.

    I hear that training full contact, like Kyokushin, helps much more in the overall training experience because the focus on the training is tougher. You are supposed to throw actual strong punches to your opponent, to not only improve your skill as a fighter, but also hard training strengthens your body.

    It's not a point system. Where one touch gets you a win. I, personally, don't see the benefits in training in non contact. Because how is that supposed to make you a better fighter? In a real fight, you can't just touch your opponent and win. You are doing yourself a dis-service to training in the martial arts by not practicing in full contact.

    Martial arts has really become "martial sports", if you understand what I mean. If you look at how karate has become. The JKA is one of those heavy influences in spreading "martial sports" around, and I don't think it benefits the user in the long run to train like that. Full contact, from my research, is the best way to train. To become a better martial artist.

    However, I could be wrong. And as so I dedicated my question over here on the forums. What are the pros and cons between the two training regiments? Is my entire assessment flawed? How so? I'm curious, because I would like to get solid closure on my question. Is there a benefit to training non full contact over full contact?
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I wouldn't say your assessment is necessarily wrong, but some people want to train a sport, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Just like some people want to look great doing flashy demos, if that's your thing, have at it I say.
     
  3. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    MOD HAT ON.

    1. Is your question specific to Karate? Or to the contact versus no contact question in general?

    2. What is the aim of the training you are asking about? To become better at self defence or to become a better competitive fighter? Or to become a harder hitter etc?

    3. What is your research?
     
  4. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    1. Well, in general, but I guess moreso specific to karate since that is the style of martial arts I am most interested in learning.

    2. I want to become better at self-defense, and a harder hitter. Strengthen and toughen my body. Be prepared for the worst case scenarios that can happen on the street. I'm not looking for a "martial sport". And since I saw that Kyokushin was full-contact, I looked deeper into what that meant. Disregarding the competitive fighting, I liked that one-hit didn't mean you won the fight.

    3. I have asked friends of mine who study karate. I have looked up online different videos. Watching videos of Lechi Kurbanov for Kyokushin, for example, or Terry O'Neill for Shotokan, and then I look deeper into them and the styles they practice. I even look at masters, like Kyokushin master Steve Arneil or Shotokan master Hirokazu Kanazawa, and I research them. Reading articles online. Just a bunch of different things. I want to fully understand what I am getting myself into before I dive head-first into studying a martial art - specifically karate. I want to learn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Self defence and kyokushin kumite are two very different things. Kyokushin-style kumite rocks pretty hard and is a great test, but it is very much not self defence training.

    The best thing is simply to find out what's in your area; no point settling on kyokushin if there isn't any, or finding that there's another style you might like better (even within karate you might prefer Enshin, Ashihara, Daido Juku (Kudo) if they are available for example. Find what's available and make a list, visit them all and see which one fits your needs best :)

    MItch
     
  6. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    So question. Then what are good, specific questions that I can ask to find out if the nearby dojos actually practice what I am looking for?

    Most of the time, I get responses from them like "we teach traditional karate". What does that even mean anymore? Everyone in the world teaches "traditional karate" apparently nowadays.

    I know what I want. I want self-defense training, application bunkai, and full-contact training to toughen up my body. I'm not into the point system way. I don't think that benefits me at all. Maybe competitive fighting one day, but that's not my focus.

    And if you can recommend me some styles that do focus on full-contact training, I would love to hear them. Going away from Kyokushin, since I know Enshin is a sub-branch of Kyokushin, what about Wado-Ryu or ****o-Ryu, for example? Are there styles of Shotokan that are full-contact and offer what I want? Or is it solely dojo based? Like, if a master at a specific dojo teaches it or not, or are there restrictions and limitations based upon the style you want to practice? I'm curious.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Why karate out of interest?

    edit: not that there is naything wrng with it, but from what you are asking for there are probably many otehr selections out there that are more immedoately accesible for self-protective purposes
     
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Have you got a list of what's in your area?

    I'm no longer a karateka so don't know all the styles, but Kyokushin, Ashihara, Enshin, Kudo are all full contact sparring styles. Again, no use unless you have them nearby.

    Wado, Shotokan etc are not normally full contact, but contact levels can vary from club to club of course.

    I'm sure some other MAPpers will be along to help out soon too :)

    Mitch
     
  9. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    I don't know. Probably due to the fact that I just love the history behind karate and all of the legendary masters that helped shape this martial art.

    Though it may also help that I am part Asian. :hat:

    I think nothing has really caught my eye as much as karate has.

    I mean, if there are some other styles of martial arts that you think best benefit my interest, I would love to hear them. I'm open to anything. I want to see what's best for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  10. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    I did some research, and I found a nearby Shotokan, Kyokushin, and American Kenpo school(sticking to the karate theme, of course. Since there is also an MMA gym nearby as well).

    Definitely trying to avoid McDojos, of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Where are you based?
     
  12. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    It will depend on the dojo as much as the style.

    I can teach you Shotokan.
    Bassai can teach you Shotokan.
    Moosey can teach you Shotokan.

    You'll get a very different class with each of us.
     
  13. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    Florida. I did do some looking around into the dojos that I was interested in, and I did see some 10-13 year old brown and black belts. Not sure if they are McDojos or not, though... so...
     
  14. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    Do you practice bunkai and full-contact? Also, what's so different regarding the classes? Do you all not teach and practice the same curriculum(maybe with some minor differences here and there) being Shotokan karateka? Doesn't the basis of Shotokan have you teaching, basically, the same thing no matter what the teacher or location?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    My very good friend John Riddle is based in Boca Raton - highly recommend you seek him out

    http://www.progressiveselfdefensesystems.com/index.php/about-us/john-riddle
     
  16. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

  17. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    We're all in different groups with different training backgrounds and, to a degree, different interests.

    If/when I teach Shotokan (I help coach shotokan once a week at someone else's club and it's no longer my core system) I'll place a heavy emphasis on Kata, bunkai and contact kihon work against pads. There will be very little air kihon combinations, marching up and down the dojo, or kihon based kumite. I'd describe that as very traditional.

    Bassai and Moosey's classes I'd expect to be more similar to each others than to mine. There would be differences between their Kata and most likely in their set kihon and kumite due to being in different associations. You would see less or no bunkai practice and more competitive kumite and kihon training than kata. They would also describe themselves as traditional - just a different more modern tradition.

    Shotokan curricula vary from association to association (differences in Kata, differences in Kihon combinations, differences in Kumite combinations, different terminology) and different clubs within associations will vary.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Most welcome!

    John offers sim courses (weapons) in addition to the plethora of other arts. He is a legit badass and one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet
     
  19. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    I know there are different associations, like ISKF and JKA, but that's actually pretty interesting what you said. I was believing that all JKA sensei taught the same curriculum, but how you put it, it's more sensei based than anything. Though now, the issue is finding out exactly which sensei are different.

    Still, pretty interesting. Because when I e-mail the dojo asking them their curriculum, they tell me "traditional karate". I don't even know what that means anymore. Everyone apparently teaches "traditional karate" nowadays, so I don't even know where to start.

    I know what I want, but I don't want to end up in a "traditional karate" point, sporty system. And that's what worries me. And I know the JKA has a reputation of being a "martial sport", and I don't want that. But if there are some JKA sensei out there that offer full-contact, I would like to meet them.
     
  20. MisterMcDojo

    MisterMcDojo New Member

    I definitely have to check him out. Unfortunate that he's a little bit out of the way from my location, but if you are recommending him as highly as you are, then I at least need to see for myself the dojo and speak with him personally. If the juice is worth the squeeze, as I always say, then it will be worth it driving that ways to train with him.
     

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