[Freestyle/Sporting MA] points fighter in continuos fight

as far as i know.....thats wat it is.....

 

Ive always heard kyokoshin was extremely hard and well respected,just a question,on eurosport they show there competitions,the guys dont cover up and no head contact whatsoever.I suppose its like any art turned sport,its watered down for safety and insurance reasons.But hey,what do I know,I probably didnt even spell it right!

Im not gonna check back through the whole thred again right now but if thats what you think a PF is (waving feet),then lets be honest,the CF would have the upper hand 9 times outta 10.so i agree with most things said

So given the strenghts and weaknesses of a traditional karateka(who fights under start stop rules,not to be confused with"get a point even if its poor form"rules)vs the strenghts/weaknesses of a CF,lets say a kickboxer then!

Cybermonk,keep looking for good standard competitions,they are out there,from what I know here,there are less of them.
At the minute Im looking for any chance I can to compete,even if its a tip tap competition,there is something to learn from them all(even if it is control your anger :woo: )

Its a great feeling,and great atmosphere at tournaments.

 

yep. kk's one problem is the no head shot rule. this is because they dont wear gloves. However a lot of dojos now are starting to wear gloves as well so they can hit to the face, and several KK offshoots like seidokan have already done this.

oh and I still think a kickboxer would take the point fighter. because its his environment.

 

What do you think would be the PFs downfall(note the type of fighter I finally explained it is) and do you think a fighter like this could bring anything to a kickboxer that would throw them off?
Cheers

 

PF's downfall? he doesnt train for it. the PF stops after scoring a good hit right? the CF stops after the other guy is on the ground. in this imaginary match, the CF is doing what he always does while the PF isnt. hes out of his element. and there are only so many ways to throw a punch or kick so no, i doubt he would bring anything new to the table.

 

Point fighters are not used to a continuos situation,so they only spend a few seconds testing the water,so while the CF is sussing the situation,this is a great start for the PF.I know there are exeptions.

On a sidenote who dya think will win in the Mike Tyson vs Danny Williams fight?I havent seen Williams yet,and havent seen Tyson since he fought Lewis

 

CF to win

I have fought in both points and continuous in the National semi contact super league run by Neville Wray and in The Cheltenham Comps run by deadly Dicker and other, smaller organised events.

In all my experience a continuous fighter would prevail against a point fighter. I have stood against both and found this to be the rule of thumb, although there are always exceptions to the rule. Contact has nothing to do with it, if we are talking anything other than full contact. It comes down to cardio and having the lungs to fight continuous. I have bounced around the mat for three quarters of a points fight, winning by 4 points to nothing and have also stood trading toe to toe for a full continuous fight. In my experience a point fighter would not have the cardio to fight and beat a continuous fighter. BUT there are always exceptions to this rule

 

Hey BPB,cool so youve fought both at a serious level?are you a CF yourself mainly?
And have you checked back previous posts to see what kind of point fighter we are talking about?

 

I am more of a CF but love PF also. I have seen excellent point fighters (British champ's and guy's who were always winning their weight class) getting beat by CF) That said, if a CF fought Points he would not do to well. I guess some guys just train points 4 or 5 times a week to win comp's but don't fight continuous. If you train one way you'll win that way more than you'll another way.

Both fighters are good at fighting there rules but don't come off to well at other rules.

Thats my thought's anyway.

 

I think everyone with experience on this thread has echo'd that final statement:

"If you train one way you'll win that way more than you'll another way."

That's the truth of the matter, like it or not.

 

My training partner won the British Championship in Continuous between 1995 - 1997. This Comp was hosted by Neville Wray. He then got beated by David Baptesta (sp? can't remember but i think he was european champ in point's at the time) 10 - 2 in points. Sorry for bringing that up Daz!!!!

Just goes to show, "You don't train points you don't win point's - you don't train continuous you don't win continuous."

I may copywrite that saying, wot ya think???

 

There was a club vs club tourn here few years back.Kickboxing vs sport karate.Karate wantd the KB club to fight points,they wouldnt so it went ahead as a continuos event.7 evenly matched fighters(irish champ v irish champ,euro,world,non champs etc)
The sport karate club came out with 7 victories,I wasnt there but I heard the PFs didnt change anything in their training,just kept doing what they do.
But if they tried to adapt stance,combos etc they probably would have got beaten,its like a boxer trying to beat a TKD guy with kicks.
BPB,do you think your points have helped your continuos,or vice versa?

 

I think my point's has given me the eye for a target so i can pick out good shot's and tot up the point's to get the decision in continuous.

The continuous has given me good lungs for a long fight, so if it's an intense points fight where you've clobbered each other and you then have to go extra time, i don't gas much at all.

I'd say that would be about the only help each one has given the other.

 

Training both ways is necasary.point training compliments full contact by helping maintain speed or become quicker.point fighting is a game of tag that requires speed.If all you do is full contact you tend to grind it out when throwing power shots all the time.

 

Just out of curiosity,some one posted about a tv programme where point fighters were matched against continuos.
Does anyone know of any dvds or videos available that has this type of competition?
havent come across any point fighting dvds come to thinkf of it.
Cheers . . . Kev

 

Check out www.blacknbluevideo.com for some kool point fighting/ semi contact style videos. Its an American based site so the majority of their footage is of US tournamnets. These guys look pretty good doing their thing.

As for vidoes available in the UK, check out issues of Martial Arts Illustrated (near the back pages usually) as they have listing of videos. In particulat check out the "Clash of the Titans" series.

As for the TV footage of point fighters vs continous fighters, the only 2 programmes I have seen were the "masters of Combat" series shown about a couple of years ago on BBC2, which had the Bristol "Death squad" winning the tournament and defeated a JKD based team captained by Clive Elliot. However, this programmed seeked to show off the different styles of martial arts and the rules for the tournament seemed to favour that of the point fighters. Also prior to the "fights" there were a number of tasks to be completed which was more reminiscient of the KRYPTON FACTOR than martial arts. And that of "Fight School" which is currently being repeated on Sky One on Monday nights I think.

Hope this Helps.

 

Thanks Silverfox,thats great,Ill definitly check that out.So clash of the titans has point fighters?
Wow,Bristol death squad?How good are these guys?
I competed in the Irish open this year,and there was one or2guys in my division in black and white suits saying death squad down the side.
Didnt get to fight any of them.I got knocked out in the 3rd round,I hadnt trained in 2 years,one of the lads was entering,so I went up for experience.
BTW there was another guy in a black suit with red on it im my division,seen 2 of his fights,not once was he hit,won his fights 10-0,amazing point fighter,from Bristol too,different club I think.
Thanks again,got any input to the original thread?

 

The Clash of the Titans videos of excellent. a few friends and i attended the Kevin Brewerton and Alfie Lewis fight. Great atmosphere. try ebay for some of the vid's.

The death squad are awesome. Lau Gar from bristol. The likes of the Allen brothers and o'para i think. I'm sure neville Wray was among them also. I think Clash of the titans 4 is the death squad Vrs the Warriors. Excellent competition.

 

I train to spar in a semi contact bout. (ITF Taekwondo) Everyone seems to be making the assumption that if its not full contact, that it is under a point stop system. That is a wrong assumption.
I can't speak for any other styles but I know that we only do point stop for junior grades, and senior grades spar continous, but still semi contact. So the only differnence is the delieverd power in the blows. Mainly because you don't want to loose through excessive contact.

And when you talk about continous sparring, do you mean that there are no points at all and only a KO win's or is it points or KO to win. If it is points or KO to win I don't think there would be much differnce between a continous semi contact and a full contact sparrer, but if its KO only the full contact would probably have the edge.

 

just saw the thread didn't read trough , but my reply to that is:

"Without preparing or adapting to the style"
At light/semi contact he might (or should I say possibly ) do well or win , depends on how good is he.

At full contact he'll be KOed in round 1. (three knock downs are considered KO too).

I've seen a lot of point sparring its a lot like semi. Different philosophy (the take the point philosophy). That’s really different from "make a combo of 2 to insert number here hits to destroy the opponent.

If you want to be good in full contact train full contact as simple as that.