Forms: Ki Cho Hyung - Woohn Ohk Hyung

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Hyeongsa, Apr 3, 2010.

  1. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    Hyungs: Forms, Patterns, Movements ruled by the Hyung Bup, Form Principles. Which one do you like, what are the principles behind that form you like and do you have videos of any old Kuk Sool forms or higher ranking forms you would like to discuss? do you have questions about any particular forms?

    this thread is open to Ki Cho Hyung all the way up to, and through, Woohn Ohk Hyung! (if anyone has the guts to discuss the black belt principles....:evil:)

    also, if there are any weapons forms you'd like to discuss or post videos of, same thing! lets have a nice thread devoted to the art aspect, instead of the debate aspect, so please no arguing! :bang: this is a discussion thread and i'm sure everyone can play nicely, just like me....:Angel:

    anyway, all yours guys! take it away!
     
  2. ksmapper

    ksmapper Valued Member

    I'll start with Ki Cho Hyung! One of my favourite videos of it is from Sung Jin performing it a few years back:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdh4k1sfv4o"]2007 KJN Sung Jin Suh Ki Cho Hyung - YouTube[/ame]

    I really like all the stance work you can do in Kuk Sool forms. This form is solid in regards to letting you work to develop quality stances. So I guess that would be my favourite aspect of this form.

    It's been nice to always have Ki Cho Hyung to come back to. The video of Sung Jin also reminds me that no matter what advanced stuff is learned, the basics can always be made better :)
     
  3. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I agree with you, ksmapper, that the video you linked is a good example of how KCH should be executed. It is a clip of a demo, however, and the only difference that I try to inject into my personal training of this form, is to use much shorter pauses than are depicted in this video.

    Cheers!
     
  4. ksmapper

    ksmapper Valued Member

    Definitely agree, I wish there were more videos of them being done in proper action rather than demo to catch those type of differences, they're important.

    What about you, what's your favourite form?
     
  5. Quozl

    Quozl Valued Member

    I am not sure what it is about Gum Moo Hyung (sorry if spellled incorrectly) that I really like, but I do. I reallyh love to try and perfomr this one as best as I can, although I have a long, long way to go to get it good.

    I have seen Master Sun Jin Suh perform it, and I only wish I had been able to train as long as he has and be as graceful and yet powerful as he is in that form.

    I think that this is the first form that is truly powerful yet truly graceful at the same time.

    Not knowing all the reast of the forms from here on, I cannot say whether they are as graceful or as powerful, (until Crane on the Cloud), but I really like Gum Moo Hyung.

    However, as with UK and with KSMApper, Ki Cho Hyung as perfomed by Sun Jin Suh is again pure artistry ...

    Maybe it would therefore be any form as performed by Master Sun Jin Suh???

    He seems to be the common denominator between the three forms I have mentioned :rolleyes:
     
  6. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    i'm a pretty big fan of Bae Palki Hyung and Woohn Ohk Hyung: both deonote the fluid aspect of Kuk Sool and you have to have amazing stances, blanace, and power to be able to perform them accurately:
    with BPH, it is of course a torment form and there is a strike on every single part. but with WOH, it has mostly ki development and balance/coordination. i find both forms equally amazing to train/perform.

    guhm moo hyung is, without a doubt, one of the more fun forms especially when done fast! trying to go at the speed that Masters Suh or Harmon go is always a blast! and i try to teach Ki Cho Hyung the same way that Master Suh performs it: slow, accurate, and low.
     
  7. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    on yudanja hyeong-beop:
    i was told that the part in geom mu hyeong right after the circle palm to the face all the way to the double-parallel-to-the-ground block (you know, the one you do when you dont want your girlfriend crushed in the front row at an iron maiden show) is to be done in ome breath!

    on neophyte hyeong-beop:
    i like seeing were people stop in their hyeong. the classic i enjoy watching is kch#4: does the person stop after the punch? is their momentum soooooo forceful that they are unbalanced?
    anyways, i also like this part because it covers two types of stepping we do in techniques.
     
  8. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    i hear that choldavea! the circle palm is one of my faviorite parts in the form; i was taught to do that in one breath as well. not as fun as it sounds. o.0

    i use to lose balance on 4, but it became alot more simple if you watch your foot work on the turn. if your legs cross too much, than you stumble. its one of those repition things.

    the strange thing i've noticed is that there is at least 5 or 6 different ways to do Woohn Ohk Hyung, and all of them seem to be covering different principles. "crane doesn't move wings" or "crane does move wings". and it seems to have changed alot over times. i like to think i know alot about my art, but what gives?
     
  9. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    If this question is directed at me, I have to point out that due to my usual lust for hearty discussion, you would've already seen a post from me if I favored one hyung over another. For me, however, asking which form is my favorite is a bit like asking a mother which of her children is her favorite. LOL

    Not that the forms are MINE, per se, but as devoted MAists we are charged with practicing them until we can call them our own (if you get my drift).

    OTOH, if you choose to discuss any details, highlights, etc. in any of the hyung taught in KSW, I'll be more than happy to offer my opinions. ;)
     
  10. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    ill start this with a prostration before the unknown, then all others who know the answer to these queries:

    1) last portion of baek pahl gi. before the jumping antari chagi; after the palm. what is that cover both thighs block to three second rising cover crane flying movement all about? as a side note i saw in the hogukmuyea video that they stepped together instead of taking flight. whats up with that?

    2) the first part of il-ja/cho geup hyeong. this is a recurring theme throughout more than half our forms. ive heard it referred to as 'jasae seogi/sagi' which is it, what does it mean, and why?

    thank you all
     
  11. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

    I thought that term referred to form application or breaking a piece of the form out and applying it.
     
  12. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    really? one prostration to you jayhawksabeom! (as choladeva frantically scratches his arms and grinds his teeth down awaiting more pics and vids)
     
  13. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Here is how I was told to interpret the term jase sogi (자세소기): holding the position/stance.

    In relation to the hyung in question, it can be broken into 2 parts despite the fact that only KCH has designated sections/pieces. The first part of chogeup hyeong all takes place in one spot and contains roughly a dozen movements. Half of them are postures standing on one leg and help to teach strength and balance if such postures are held for more than a few seconds (but would need to be practiced on BOTH sides to be truly beneficial, ergo the "breaking it out of the form" for beginner practice). The second part of the form has you taking a step with practically every movement and contains roughly twice as many movements as the first part. And yet despite having more movements, the second part should be executed in the same time-frame that it takes to execute the first part. This is usually accomplished by "holding" each stance in the first part for a few extra seconds than would normally be done when executing hyung movements.

    However, another interpretation for the practice of this hyung is to develop speed. By NOT holding the postures in the first part unduly long, then you must move VERY quickly when stepping through the second part in order to make both parts roughly equal in time-duration. Bear in mind that this is a more advanced concept to apply to this form, and not for beginners whose latest form is this one.
     
  14. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    one 90 degree obeisant bow to the unknown.
     
  15. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    And yet you have neglected to to use the OBVIOUS emoticon below: :p


    :hail: :hail: :hail:​



    I realize this emoticon could be viewed as denoting SARCASM, but I mention using it since if using the *standard* nomenclature when lauding me, Jayhawk, or whoever else *wins* a bow/salute from you, that you wouldn't want to confuse anyone WRT the MAPer known as Out-to-Lunch (formerly "kidosool"). In other words, you could've also written OTL (note: the man is bowing to the left in this representation).



    EDIT:
    Note that I didn't answer the queries from post #10 straight away, as I don't wish to seem domineering. I only offered my views on question #2 after Jayhawk waded in (way to go, Jayhawk! :cool:). I'm still waiting to see what others think about question #1.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  16. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    just had a ki cho hyeong class!!! really though, the fruits of it were a lecture on how low is great, but if a 'building too wide, the roof' and i forgot the rest, but it was basically about only going as low as our power will allow us. sloppy transitions are a perfectly visible example of this. we can get lower stances by practising them for 15 second intervals (kind of like a flexion-tension exercise). breathe in for 7, hold one, and out 7. this is one of master yang's methods. he then spoke of baby breathing vs. reverse breathing again, but i am a neophyte, so i don't get it though.
     
  17. Quozl

    Quozl Valued Member

    Hi Choladeva,

    Thanks for your post.

    I was wondering if you, or anybody else for that matter, understand what the "baby breaths" verses the reverse breathing is about.

    I am not sure I understand the term reverse breathing (in fact I am sure I don't, lol), so was wondering what that is and how one does it, and for that matter why?

    Anybody got any ideas out there I would appreciate an explanation.

    All the best,

    Quozl
     
  18. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    dunno if its the same technique, but when I was doing my Physical Education diploma in the 1970's we were taught to deliberately "reverse breathe" to enable hyperoxygenation before a specific physical event. e.g. before a rugby scrum or penalty move. Basically you repeatedly forcibly breathe OUT rather than in, then simply relax and let the air run in. The logic is that by forcibly removing carbon dioxide, you enhance intake of oxygen. Sounds logical, but I've no idea if the blood chemistry is really that simple.
    I suppose you can look at it as a deliberate form of hyperventilation.
    Certainly the act of doing it CAN help "psyche" you up, can make you feel light headed, more aggressive, and seemingly less likely to feel pain. Hopefully it also enhances performance...
    Its only a short-term effect though: you have do it before each and every scrum / lineout / penalty move. And of course it would be hard to do during the course of normal play as you have to think about doing it - and that will reduce concentration of catching the ball (or thumping the other bloke...)

    Now I'm guessing, but I'd suggest that "baby breaths" are the fast shallow panting people tend to do when recovering from physical exercise - and don't actually work all that well at getting oxygen into the lungs


    PS to this

    Sorry - looks like I'm wrong
    This thread http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12342
    implies that this is the correct answer:
    http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Cohen29.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  19. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

  20. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    my PE theory lecturers obviously had a completely different idea in mind!
     

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