For the Sake of Clarification

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Vajrayana, Mar 27, 2012.

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  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    9 months??? I have had injuries last longer than that

    I find your logic absolutely laughable in that you conceive 9 months in an art as intricate and sophisticated as grappling to be sufficient, yet decry those who think JKD can be learned in a short time frame.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter


    My lineage was put up there for the sake of transparency and to frame the discussion. You have alluded and mentioned names, but have yet to provide the same level of detail in YOUR training. So what is it?

    And again you pull absolute tosh like "Pure JKD" out of your hat - do you even READ what Sijo wrote down? Statements like that are the absolute antithesis of everything he believed in and stood for.

    The fact you can't see that does not make me angry - it makes me pity your myopia
     
  3. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    9 months grappling?!? what?!?

    state your lineage.
     
  4. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    And I pity you for being so desperate that you are trying to incline that my 9 months of grappling was targeted to attaining any level of profeciency much less expertise. you know well why I posted the time I spent because someone asked me about it. And I reported why it was not in line with my training criteria. and If I wanted to really excel at it I would have to compramise my training schedule and the attributes I was really trying to own. That is the difference between you and me is this I Potray your lineage and its inclination as it is. You are a concepts guy and as the concepts name in JKD is pretty much dead now its clear more and more people are catching up to the fact that it was nothing but a mess and distortment of the JKD art. you on the other hand are trying to nit pick at things I say and twist them to mean something esle to give your sself some edge on the issue. You are desperate!
     
  5. Oddsbodskins

    Oddsbodskins Troll hunter 2nd Class

    Okay so, getting down to brass tacks, was this argument about the merits of transferable attributes from one form of training to another? If so then, at the most basic level, you've already acknowledged you train in multiple areas Mharewood, including weapons work. If you're going to train multiple areas, isn't it better to do so in such a manner that gains in one area will lead to gains in other areas as well? Instead of just developing one thing at a time? In terms of net gain I mean.
     
  6. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    Thats how!

    To simplify

    now I'm not saying that cannot be done with other arts.
    I'm saying its rarely done in schools that teach those other arts under the JKD banner.

    When you experience JKD with a legitimate group you will see that at more advanced levesl its still simple. Only difference is ...

    Its even more SIMPLE LMAO
     
  7. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    Dude as I explained I have lineage going back to Dan Inosanto through Cass Magda & One of Vunaks Students Stephen Foy and I've attended seminars with himself through Bob Breen and Rick young years back.
    My lineage to Bob Bremer is through Tim Tackett and his Lot & my lineage to Leo Fong, Larry Hartsell, James Lee and Ted Wong has been Through Tommy Carruthers and his Guys. Alot of these guys themselves have trained with numerous other students of Lee too so there is no "one" lineage. I trained in other arts too.

    I've learned that certification and lineage in JKD mean little if ones training plan and direction does not reflect what Bruce was trying to get at with his methods. Infact the only one out of the above that has cleared all the confusion & Paradoxes in JKD and sets very high standards in quality tuition and how one should train in bruces art is the one who actually does not have an official full teaching certificate. and that is Tommy Carruthers believe it or not! he doesn't just preach JKD he actually practices it ....in tuition, training methods and strategy. Very nice guy too if you get to know him. the problem is he just says it as it is with regards to the poor standards of JKD and because he is good he has ticked many off sending shock waves. You can't exactly argue with him though because if you look at some of his own students they are better skilled than other instructors certified to teach under the others.

    I've learned that unlike what most the people here say..
    JKD is NOT "ANYTHING THAT WORKS". because that means nothing specific!!! against whom? in what situation? JKD IS A CONSTANT STUDY OF WHAT IS LIKELY TO WORK AGAINST ANYTHING! and finding a better way. If you can see the difference between the 2 statements maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from. Otherwise Its just a waste of time. Certificates and lineage mean little when your life is on the line from an attack.
     
  8. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    You make fair theoretical points that I acknowledge already but I'm afraid saying that JKD is a street art is a vague statement that demonstrate to me you have little of any training in it at all to understand what criterion of inclusion/elimination should go into the teaching of any other art such as Kali under the JKD name.

    irrespective of function and form Kali is a different art than JKD and just because 2 of his students decided to teach it as part of their missrepresented seminars doesn't make it part of JKD no matter how much in common or in conflict it the 2 arts have. Leo Fong Teaches Kali too but does he ever sell it as JKD? No!
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    maybe something a little more specific?
    your definition of JKD so far sounds like that of biomechanist or sport scientists view on movement. however your ideas on skill learning are a bit odd.
    in fact it sounds much like the philosophy behind judo and bjj and even olympic lifting, simplify the movement, maximum efficiency with minimum effort.
    do you consider JKD to be its own style like judo or freestyle wrestling or the creation of a personal style, individual to each person?
     
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I have been grappling for nine months this month, I can't say I want to discard it. I also take Muay Thai, and get whipped there too, so I figure I can't afford to discard anything.

    Funny though, in MMA, if I can't win on the ground, I try and keep it standing. It helps being well-rounded. :D
     
  11. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Must... not... make sumo jokes...

    :whistle::vanish:
     
  12. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    Everything becomes a personal style be it the most traditional of arts to just something you pull out of a fight club. No one can clone another mans expression! Expression is like your handwriting. You learn the english alphabet but develope your own individual handwriting. But you still adhere to the english alphabet. You don't improve your English handwriting by writing in Arabic or swahili either. THAT IS WHERE BRUCES IDEA OF SELF EXPRESSION IS MISSUNDERSTOOD

    JKD is not a style in that the focus is on the anatomical structure that allows you to move the best way you can from A To B. and strike the same way. Boxing and fencing were used as guidlines for this not for the sake of just cross training the 2. You train to avoid Clashing with your opponenet unlike his earlier stuff. To do this the structure became more compact and linear. Just like a taichi practitioner will make their circles smaller. But again you avoid clashing!!! you either evade, disengage or you can intercept which is much more difficult. Contract and Expand. move back and move forward. Trapping is also another myth. you trap as a result of a failed attack. Wing chun was thrown out just like the core of the apple when you finish eating it.

    If you must grapple then you grapple but take a look at yourself afterwards and ask honestly!!! Was there not a better way?

    THERE IS ONLY 1 PUNCH AND ONE KICK IN JKD. Everything is just a variation of the same punch and kick depnding on what angle you strike at. This was an idea hard for me to get my head around at first.
     
  13. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I don't understand this part? If you can't clone another mans style, why are you all training like Bruce Lee?

    Not a cheeky question, just an honest one, I'm curious :)
     
  14. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    i do have further questions but the attitude you have to the simple question i asked isn't helping.
    so far anything asked of you, even unrelated questions, has given the result that your knowledge of JKD is superior to everyone else and that JKD is superior to everything else.
    you were asked about your lineage and your response was that your knowledge was superior to hannibal's.
    i asked you your definition of JKD and your response was that JKD is superior to grappling.
    ap Oweyn sked you why your definition of JKD did not include a variety of weapons training to simulate a variety of environments and your response was that ap Oweyn has inferior knowledge of JKD and dismissed his question because he does not seem to have experience in JKD rather than answering his question.
    Its pretty sad that someone who regards himself as so knowledgable has no ability to listen to others and answer the questions asked and rather dismisses them.
    good day good sir.
     
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Ah the old 'Pure Jeet Kune Do' watsit. Ah your one of those whith their head stuck in the clouds worshiping the one and only truely way. Your from that we are the only true ones undefeatable str33t fighter boys then.

    I think you need to get out more.

    This could be Sheever?

    So how long you been training Pure JKD what ever the hell that is??
     
  16. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Pure JKD is like pure water

    Everyone wants it

    Everyone think they may have it

    But no one desires to share it
     
  17. Oddsbodskins

    Oddsbodskins Troll hunter 2nd Class

    And if you inject yourself with it it turns out you'll die?
     
  18. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Never known someone to inject pure water :rolleyes:
     
  19. Oddsbodskins

    Oddsbodskins Troll hunter 2nd Class

    It would be a silly thing to do, certainly intravenously. Won't be great for you into the muscles either, but IV is where the real damage would be.
     
  20. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Therefore you missed my analogy and thought about injection?
     
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