I know the Bob Breen Academy has an excellent overall reputation, which I'm sure is very well deserved, but I was wondering what people think of it as a place to start out for someone specifically interested in learning FMA? I ask because I'm not particularly interested in learning other things the school teaches such as JKD and grappling at the moment, although I'm open to trying new things. I also notice it teaches specifically the Lacoste-Inosanto school, and that in the "LaCoste-Inosanto Blend" thread below some people here said that things like " it is more concerned with drills and accumulation of technique rather than application", which worries me a little; do people feel that about what the Academy teaches? In that thread Pat O'Malley refers in very favourable terms to someone called Bob; is that Bob Breen? Any other recommendations in Central or North London? I know there are Black Eagle and Rapid Arnis classes just outside London but they're in places I really can't get to (live North and don't have a car). Many thanks for any help you guys can give me, Pach. PS Just to add I in no way mean to be disrespectful to the Bob Breen Academy or the Lacoste Inosanto school, which I'm sure are both founts of martial arts excellence. I just ask because I know that on the one hand the school has a very very good reputation, and on the other that it teaches a mix of arts and an FMA stylethat people have described as quoted above, so as someone who wants to learn specifically FMA and would rather not do something that is more about drills than application for example, I'm torn both ways (as I'm sure I will be literally when I start FMA training ).
Hey Pach, Yes it was Bob I was refering to. He is not known as the Father of British Eskrima for nothing. He has a great knowldge. when I was manager at The Academy he used to run the JKD and FMA classes seperatly, I beleive he still does. If this is the only place you can get to then you could not have picked a better place. Bob teaches more than Lacoste-Inosanto blend, he has a miriad of styles to choose from and he can teach you how to fight with them too. Trust me I know. Best regards Pat
Hi Pach, Don't forget that grappling is an aspect of FMA. Try the school out if its not for you I'm sure you will know. I have heard rave review about him too. Thanks J
the Academy I trained at Bob Breen's for two years (until about march this year then I moved away from the area) It totally re-wrote the book for me in my martial arts. (I had a Black Belt in TKD before I went there.) The instruction is technically excellent, something like 11 instructors in total including several former champions. The blend of styles is strongly FMA and muay thai in content, with less Jun Fan and WC than you would expect. You can pick and choose what you want to train in as there are 1 hour classes every weeknight for about 3-4 hours, each with a distinct theme or style (based on who teaches). That's the good news... Here's the bad news... It is expensive, something like £65 a month (includes unlimited classes + small weights room and a couple of cardio machines), seminars cost extra. You are also expected to buy quite a lot of kit eg. bag gloves, focus mitts, sticks etc. The club has a huge population. I trained there for two years and in my last session the instructor, that I had trained with most of all, asked me my name! You don't get to train with Bob until you have completed three gradings, and the grading syllabus is rigidly fixed regardless of what you have been practicing in class, also gradings cost extra. And worst of all, there isn't much sparring. There are a few classes where you can guarrantee sparring, and if you miss them too often then you might not spar for months. As a consequence when sparring does happen a lot of people (myself included) could be either quite gun-shy or over zealous and that doesn't make the sparring very rewarding. If you aren't careful you could end up with great technique and no way to deliver it. Overall would I recommend the Academy?... Yes. If you can afford it and train enough to make it worth the money, and if you make a conscious effort to spar at every opportunity. Otherwise, if you study FMA in the UK, you will just end up paying for Bob Breen seminars and instructional videos! (Also Neil Mcleod teaches at the Academy and in my opinion he is the best all round martial artist that I've ever met. )
£65 per month for all those classes with top people and a weight gym thrown in. That's pittance when you consider just how many classes you can do each week. Think about it, if you train twice a week and pay £5 per class thats around £45 per month and all you get is a church hall. And you would still have to buy your own gloves etc, I would'nt wear anyone esles gloves anyway, you don't know what infections you may get . Plus showers, need I go on. I have not trained with Bob since 1993 and I was with him for well over 11 years, and it was worth every penny, considering I used to train day's a week and 4 - 5 hours a day. I was lucky, I had the privaledge to train directly with Bob from Day 1. But I am sure that if you stay long enough he will know you are dedicated enough to warrent his time. It's like anything, you get out of it what you put in and no amount of money, even a mere £65 per month can account for that. Try him out, and like the gentleman said, you will soon find out if it is for you. All the best Pat
I don't think anyone will argue that Bob has probably done more than most to promote the FMA here in the UK and possibly Europe too but I think to call him the Father of British Eskrima paints an inaccurate picture because it ignores and diminishes the efforts of those who were here before him and teaching the art. Credit should be given where it's due. In Bobs case its his achievements and promotion of the FMA not as it's pioneer. Also, what are the myriad of styles that he teaches? Does he teach them as complete systems and does he hold instructor ranks in them? Before his followers give me a verbal beating let me say that this is curiosity and nothing else. Doug
Hi DeeTee, Not gonna give you a beating I will let your good lady do that The reason Bob has been known as the Father of British Eskrima is because of the work he has done to help bring Eskrima to the forefron in the UK and Europe, this does not take away the work thos have done before him, it is just that Bob has done more than most and a good majority of the top instructors of FMA in the UK were how shall I say born under Bob's wing, so they tend to look at him as a father figure for the art even though many have left him for various reason. Also you will be surprised just how many styles Bob is qualified in, But hat is something he prefers to keep to himself. It was never mentioned that Bob was ever a pioneer for the arts in the UK and Europe that title belongs to people such as Jay Dobrin and the like, To put it in perspective, people like Jay Dobrin would be more known to the old FMAers here in the UK as one of the Grand-Fathers of British Eskrima along with others like Bill Newman and the like. Bob certainly inroduced many different styles to what are now top instructors in and around Europe. As a matter of fact Bob was the first person to introduce Illustrissimo style. I actually remember Illustrissimo walking through us all whilst training for a world championships back in 1992 just to say hello to Bob and find out if he wanted to come training after the championships, for the rest of our saty in Manila the whole team was given a guide from Illustrissimo's group to help show everyone the sights. So yes credit were credit is due, and Bob deserves a lot more credit than he has been given in the past. Even though I fell out with Bob (personal reasons) back in 1993 I still credit him for all he has taught me and many others that are involved in the FMA in the UK, and if we are honest many of those who started with Bob have been responsible for producing the new breed of FMA instructor that is around today. All the best Pat
Let's pick the 3 most well know FMA instructors in the UK for instance. Not blowing my own horn here, But I left Bob as many know in 1993 after training for over 11 years with him, he introduced me to people like Momoy Canete, Diony Canete, Ondo Caburnay, Jose Mena. Bill McGrath, etc etc etc. The same goes for John Harvey who trained with Bob for over 25 years before going his own way with me in 1993. And thirdly, we have Krishna Godhania who started his FMA training with Bob in 1991, it was Bob who introduced Krishna to Abner Pasa in 1992. So the father of Eskrima, yes, and the Grand Father of Jeet Kune Do in Europe, most definetly Yes, the Pioneer for one style no, but for the pioneer majority of styles in the UK most definetly Yes. There is more to Bob than meets they eye, whether he lets you see it is another matter all together. Best regards Pat
I trained at the Academy in 98 for about 8 months. Seems things have changed a little since then. Back then Guro Bob taught all levels as I remember and there were was a lot of sparring. A lot more than most JKD schools. Guro Bob himself taught more in the way of Filipino martial arts empty hands than Jun Fan where guys like Terry Barnett did more Jun Fan. Although it lack some of the bredth of some US JKD scools ( no BJJ, Silat, Savate...) what they could do is functionalize. From a FMA perspective Guro Bob did focus on the Inosanto-Lacosta stuff not delving into many other styles. I found that some of the instructors there again didn't have wide knowledge of different FMA systems but they could funtionalize what they had. What I didn't like was that knife work was not really part of the normal classes, but in seperate seminars that ran at various times during the year and cost extra. Vince
Hi Pat, We agree that Bob has probably done more than most to promote and propagate the FMA in Europe. You also raise a valid point with regards to the majority of instructors in the UK come from him and probably do look at him as a Father figure for the art. I understand that but just because they do doesn't make it so. To refer to him as "The Father of British Eskrima" is still inaccurate and in my mind does do a disservice to the likes of Rene Latosa, Jay Dobrin, Brian Jones and Bill Newman "It was never mentioned that Bob was ever a pioneer for the arts in the UK and Europe that title belongs to people such as Jay Dobrin and the like" The thing is I do think Bob is a pioneer for the FMA here not though for introducing it (which by using the term "The Father of ...." imples) because the art was here and being practiced and taught before Bob ever got involved but because he was amongst those in the early days involved in spreading the art. "To put it in perspective, people like Jay Dobrin would be more known to the old FMAers here in the UK as one of the Grand-Fathers of British Eskrima along with others like Bill Newman and the like." LOL. Man, that almost sounds like an after-thought. When was the last time you ever heard of someone else being referred to as "The Grand-Father" of an art? I don't think I've lived under a rock for the past 2 decades and I've never heard it. People say "The Father of...." to refer to someone as the point of origin for something - The Grand-Father, Father, Son and Holy Ghost? Nah, I don't think so. Pat O' Malley and John Harvey - the Fathers of Rapid Arnis? Yes. Simon Wells - the Father of British Lapunti? Yes. Bob Breen - the father of British JKD? Most definitely. Father of British Eskrima? No. Even though he may be responsible for introducing different styles of Eskrima to the UK and Europe and should be acknowledged as such, he's not responsible for introducing the art here par se. "So yes credit were credit is due, and Bob deserves a lot more credit than he has been given in the past." To be honest I don't think I've ever come across anyone who hasn't given Bob due credit for the work he's done in spreading JKD and the FMA. As you say, you simply have to look at the amount of instructors that have come from his stable to see that. It's undeniable and inescapable "And thirdly, we have Krishna Godhania who started his FMA training with Bob in 1991, it was Bob who introduced Krishna to Abner Pasa in 1992." Krishna's version of events surrounding his inital meeting with Abner are somewhat different to what the above statement would have people believe. Now doubt that would have changed by now though. Regard, Doug
You may be right, but as you say many of us do look at him as a Father figure so those of us that started becuase of him I feel as entitled to use the term Father Figure, and I don't think it does a disservice to the likes of Rene, Jay, Brian and Bill, as Bob actually started with them and he would look at them in the same way many look at Bob, which if Bob looks at the likes of Jay Dobrin (whom I have known personally for a long time by the way) as a father figure then those under Bob would consider Jay a GrandFather of the art would they not. It is just the same as using the term Master and GrandMaster is it not. Well up untill the point of Bob's involvement, there was only one style being taught in the UK, once Bob got heavily involved a whole miriad of styles were brought to our shores via Bob, so he could be considered a Father figure for the simple reason he exposed more styles than anyone before him, so maybe we can agree to disagree on this point. Afterthought, maybe, but a better way to describe things, I thinks so. Just because something may look, sound and may well even be an afterthought does not mean that it is not a better way to explain things now does it. Agreed Well, lets just say this. I was there and I have it on Video, I even have a T-shirt with all of us printed on the front , I was supposed to also train with Abner at the time but I chose to go to Manila instead. Best regards Pat
This is like deja vu. "You may be right, but as you say many of us do look at him as a Father figure so those of us that started becuase of him I feel as entitled to use the term Father Figure, and I don't think it does a disservice to the likes of Rene, Jay, Brian and Bill, as Bob actually started with them and he would look at them in the same way many look at Bob, which if Bob looks at the likes of Jay Dobrin (whom I have known personally for a long time by the way) as a father figure then those under Bob would consider Jay a GrandFather of the art would they not. It is just the same as using the term Master and GrandMaster is it not." No it's not. "Well up untill the point of Bob's involvement, there was only one style being taught in the UK, once Bob got heavily involved a whole miriad of styles were brought to our shores via Bob, so he could be considered a Father figure for the simple reason he exposed more styles than anyone before him, so maybe we can agree to disagree on this point." Well. lets consider JKD. Using that basis for reasoning then would you describe Dan Inosanto as the Father of JKD simply because he's promoted it much more than Lee ever could (for obvious reasons!) and in successive years has introduced a wider range of arts to the public? "Afterthought, maybe, but a better way to describe things, I thinks so. Just because something may look, sound and may well even be an afterthought does not mean that it is not a better way to explain things now does it." LOL. No " Well, lets just say this. I was there and I have it on Video, I even have a T-shirt with all of us printed on the front , I was supposed to also train with Abner at the time but I chose to go to Manila instead." OK. All I can say is that I spent 6 years as a closed doors student of Krishna and for whatever reason his story was different. But hey, if you have it on video then his recollection must be flawed. Why don't we just agree to disagree on pretty much most things here. I know from experience how these things can drag on and on and on and...... All the best, Doug
LOL. I can live with that. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, as a matter of fact, if we all agreed then their would be no reason to have forums such as this . PM me the other version of Krishna's meeting, I would love to hear it. All the best Pat
<SNIP> I spent 6 years as a closed doors student <SNIP> Out of interest, what is meant by a 'closed doors student'? Would this imply something different from training privately with an instructor? Thanks. xtrainer
As a closed door student you may learn more privately with an instructor but this means you have ben training with your instructor for quite some time and you are very close to your instructor.
