Flippy Flappy hand Wavers

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by Pretty In Pink, Jul 25, 2015.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You know the type, beginners in thai with a bit of an ego, or "experts" in karate or JJJ and they don't relax when they're sparring. So when you're doing drills like a four count on each other they are blocking EVERYTHING with their hands. Dropping them to defend leg kicks and body shots.

    How do I go around politely telling them not to block and just use the "cage" method?
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Punch them on the chin....Quae Nocent Saepe Docent
     
  3. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    body kicks. either they prove their arms can take them or they figure out they can't (and i say this as an instinctive forearm blocker :p)
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Fake a right hook.

    When a they turn their whole body in super MA pose. Straight jab.
     
  5. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Did you walk in to a Wing Chun school and not realise?
     
  6. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The best strategy to deal with your opponent's

    - kick is to catch his leg,
    - punch is to wrap his arms,

    and then take him down from there. Both "leg catching" and "arm wrapping" all start from an arm contact such as a "block".

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdTCXhanxzk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdTCXhanxzk[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    1) Make them drop there hands, (see 4 when they don't) with a mix between real hits and fakes
    2) Hit them in the head (i.e. negative feedback)
    3) See 1)
    4) Give Positive feedback for not dropping hands
    5) see 1) again but faster, or harder or more trickier fakes.
     
  8. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Hit them with less power until they become more confident in their guard.
     
  9. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Politely explain the flaw in what they are doing and model better practice for them.
     
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    That's the thing I'm not hitting them hard and they are getting confident with the flappy hands because nothing is landing. I suppose I can hide my shots better, or I could just man up and tell them :p
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Getting smashed in the face by a boxer was one of the single best things that happened to me coming from a TMA background - you are doing them no favours by pandering to the flappyness!
     
  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think if you can explain why one way is superior to the other, model it, and help them to work on it in a progressively resistant manner then that's the best way. Cracking them in the jaw should really be the last resort in the context of two students/players drilling together in the gym.

    When I first started Thai I was coming from a BJJ background and a long layoff. I was very passive and relaxed. When drilling hands in an isolation type spar /drill, I was slow and struggled with timing and head movement. My partner (few months experience) ust kept cracking me with obvious glee, harder and more aggressively the more he knew he could connect. Now while that aggravated me and motivated me to work outside of class to get better I found I learned more when I was allowed to play and develop and be coached and I allowed my partner the same. all I do now is crush him with my A game whenever we spar which affords a certain satisfaction but ultimately doesn't aid our growth as much as a more cooperative approach.
     
  13. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Not his call to make. He should talk to his coach about it and have his coach resolve it. No point in smashing someone in the face and potentially causing an issue with the student when there shouldn't be a need for one. People leave clubs over stuff like that, not because they are hit but because people hit hard when they're not ready to be hit hard, and that doesn't benefit anyone.
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Don't go mental obviously, but one good rap on the snot box can replace weeks of "move it here...no not there...try this...no your hand came up again...no, try this....that was your hand again.........."

    With beginners this is not the best approach, but if you need to show WHY the "Fist of Fury" guard doesn't work to the types described above...well like I said above Quae Nocent Saepe Docent

    Equally if you are performing a drill then the expectation should be that if you do it wrong you get hit - a "consequence to failure". Said hit can be very gentle, but it is there to remind people that their response was incorrect. From day 1 training with me you are told to aim for the target. The only difference between a beginner and an experienced student in this regard is the intensity level of how they hit (and technical execution of what they hot with obviously)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Stop speaking Canadian! :mad:
     
  16. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think that there is that 'sweet spot' isn't there; where you are allowing someone to work/forcing them to work but not stifling them with too much pressure or hanging back so much that they can slack off or that you are compromising your own training?
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yes

    With a raw beginner you are not going to get too much of a work out, but you CAN refine your own technique by teaching them some of the finer points of a given drill. You can also try the "look ma...no hands!" approach, but that can come across as cocky.

    In straight sparring you can also try isolating (just the left hook), "wrong siding" yourself or any other method of handicapping you.

    Modifying it for yourself is easy, but I always want my partner to develop too
     
  18. Punchy

    Punchy Purely Practical

    Cage Method

    OK. Dumb Question - What is the cage method?
     
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Not stupid at all! Cage meths is similar to Crazy Monkey Defence. Basically you keep your hands close to your head when you parry and block.
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Man, I haven't used crazy monkey defense in years! (notes down for next class)
     

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