Filial Responsibility? or Giving back?

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Diego_Vega, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    I had no idea how to title this post, so bear with me. One of the sad facts of life here in the Philippines is that we're a very poor country. We've always been a poor country. That's why there are so many people of Filipino blood all over the world. That's why there are so many Filipino martial artists based in the United States and other countries. They've looked for a better life elsewhere. Nonetheless, there are still a great many FMA masters and grandmasters who reside in the Philippines. Some of these grandmasters are the titular head or founders of systems that have students all over the world. However, the grandmasters themselves often live in squalid poverty. I was wondering if the students and teachers of these sytems feel any sense of responsibility or obligation for the welfare of the founders of the system they teach and presumably make some money from. Grandmaster Lanada, the founder of the Lanada system of arnis, lives in a squatter colony in Litex, in the Fairview area of Quezon City. I debated to myself whether I should mention his name or not, but a friend of mine who studied that system and visits the GM Lanada encouraged me to do so. He also suffered a stroke some years back and is paralyzed on the left side of his body. There are other masters in the same boat. I guess I have different questions for martial arts students who live overseas and for those who live here in the Philippines. For those overseas, would you be willing to send some of your fma earnings to a teacher living on the other side of the world as a form of royalty? For those who live here, why are Filipino martial arts students (as opposed to/or including FMA students) willing to dish out over 2,000 pisos a month for lessons or 4,500 pisos for a seminar in foreign arts but would not even consider giving their own FMA the same respect?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2004
  2. chenstyle44

    chenstyle44 Valued Member

    posting on other forum

    Hi Diego,
    Im wondering if I could post this message on another forum I belong to. It might help spread the word faster.
    Gumagalang,
    Gordon Walker
     
  3. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    Sure. Feel free. Thanks.
     
  4. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    don diego,

    forget the master-student thing. fma organizations, if you're in one long enough, is like a family. and when a family member, much less the head, needs money, the typical filipino response is to send money/ help/ resources, regardless if they know the person well or not. we should keep this alive even though some may find it corny.
     
  5. david f

    david f New Member

    There are those who are involved in FMA who look after the grandmasters/masters they are training with very well. I am sure that peopkle like Pat O'Malley have looked after the teachers they train with and I know that I also do. Since I have been here , I ensure that I pay them more than they usually request and I ensure that they are never without things such as food, etc.

    But on the other side of the coin, I do know of one master in the USA who was sending money to his fellow students of the same style here in the Philippines. It was a considerable amount of money and was meant to be for the rent of a place to teach their martial arts and be something like a club house. What happened? The money was used for drinking and after 7 months of sending the money, he stopped doing so.

    This is one of many stories and is no way to disrespect the masters.

    In regards to Grandmaster Lanada, this is very sad and is especially so when you consider that he has students successfully teaching in a number of countries.
     
  6. Roman_Rapido

    Roman_Rapido New Member

    Sad but true.....

    Many of the arnis masters here in the Philippines died poor and lonely deaths because they were taken advataged of students who either used the master's name for profit or students who have haggled for a smaller training fees for arnis lessons. The arnis masters have no other choice but to take the small offer because they need it for their daily expenses and they want to spread the art even if they are paid way, way below their true worth.

    Imagine if, for example the likes of Illustrisimo (Kali Illustrisimo), Abrian (Moro-Moro), Caballero (1-2-3 Orihinal) came to the US for a series of seminars. I believe it will be a well attended event and they will be paid well, not just because the value of the dollar is higher than peso, but because Americans and other foreigners seems to have a high regards to the art and these masters and are willing to pay good money to learn from them. Compare that to Filipinos in the Philippines who are cheapskates when in comes to paying these top-notch arnis masters but are more than happy to pay P2,000.00 to P5,000.00 pesos PER SEMINAR on Jiu jitsu, Judo, Capioera etc. conducted by foreigners.

    I think it has something to do with Philippine colonial mentality. Filipinos don't appreciate their art and culture. Filipinos would rather be second-rate Americans, Japanese, Korean and what have you than be first-rate Filipinos.

    I think the idea of giving back something to the teachers who have taught you is well and good. But, let us start first in our own backyard (the Philippines). Let us appreciate OUR own native art before we advise our brothers-in-arms from other countries on filial responsibility.
     
  7. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    roman rapido!, welcome to map! (wasn't roman rapido lito lapid's character?)
     
  8. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    It all goes back to the "why Filipinos prefer foreign arts thread". In the end everyone has their own opinion. It's for us who train the arts to excell in it, master it and pass it on to their best abilities and in their own way try to find ways to support the growth of the arts back in the Phlippines. One way is to let your own skills do the talking. Word is getting out as to who can produce and who can't. Hope the students of these Masters don't forget where they came from.
     
  9. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    I was hoping their would be a post from somebody doing/teaching the Lanada system overseas. Unfortunately, most of my information if 2nd hand. I've asked my friend to join MAP and tell of his personal experiences involving Master Lanada's present situation.
     
  10. juramentado

    juramentado lean, mean eating machine

    I've had the sad experience of seeing this myself. I accompanied a foreign FMA practitioner to an interview with the head of a style. He also had a stroke and was visibly weak on one side. He was also living in poverty and it was really depressing to see someone with his skills living the rest of his life in neglect and obscurity.

    yes, it goes back to why Filipino like other MAs and disregard their own. But it's also a reflection of one reality of FMA: that it is largely a working class MA. Few middle class, much less upper class, Filipinos will be interested in FMA simply because they probably feel it's beneath them. I know that sounds really harsh but that's the unvarnished truth. And so, unless the head of the style is savvy about his skills and is able to teach and spread his style such that it provides some financial rewards, then the style will wither and maybe fade away. Of course there are style that are still taught within families, and that's another thing altogether. Another option is to have wealthy students and / or benefectors what will help finance the growth of the style. It's not about making a buck from FMA, just the realities of keeping a MA alive.

    We Filipino pride ourselves in taking care of our elders but sadly some have shed this virtue. In the MA world, people can move from one style to another and loyalties fade away.

    Nevertheless, finding out about the present circumstances of GM Lanada is quite shocking to me. I thought he was doing well, with Lanada being taught all over the world. Makes me wonder what happened to all his student and if they even know what happened to him...:(
     
  11. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    All I can say is, that if their is anything we FMAers can do it is this, support all of the FMA GM's and founders as much as we can, for if we do not then the knowledge they have will die with them.

    It is also up to the Pinoy FMAers to help their instructors promote the FMA to the Pinoy public in a good light, get out their and inform the public just how rich their own art realy is and maybe you can convince just even one more person to become a true Eskrimador.

    Think about it, if we all convinced one person to become an Eskrimador (regardless of style) the FMA would become the largest MA in the world and the founders and GM's would no onger have to worry about when and where the next meal comes from.

    Also to counter act this we have to convince certain people not to sell grades to the highest bidder (although I can understand why, we all need to eat) and make sure that when someone claims to be a so an so in FMA then have not just used the mighty $ to buy the rank.

    This is why I am in the process of setting up P.A.S.O. (the Philippines All Styles Organisation) which will be totally FREE to join with NO head of the organisation (everyone becomes an administrator for their area) as long as you can 1) prove your back ground in the FMA is authentic and 2) not run down or bad mouth the FMA regardless of style.

    It is about time we all banded together as brother FMAers and done something possitive to promote the FMA as a whole and it's GM's and founders.


    Mabuhay all fellow Eskrimadors


    Pat O'Malley
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2004
  12. LastFMArnisador

    LastFMArnisador New Member

    Amen to Mr.Pat-the-Cat !

    Amen to that, brother-in-arms... :Angel:

    Oh, and let's not forget our fellow sisters-in-arms too, women in the FMA, i might add.

    tara, mga kapatid, magsundo tayo at magaral ng Eskrima, para sa lahat ng mga tao, at para sa atin.. (trans = come, my brethren, let us join and train eskrima, for all people and for us.)

    Wish i was still fluent in Tagalog.. i could have said a more better and honest passage.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2004
  13. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    I would love to see this happen but what are your terms regarding authenticity? Why even add this requirement? If they have something to teach and contribute then who cares what system or of the authenticity of what they teach? even those who are originals had to somehow start their own Family systems. They have the skill then so be it. if what they have is sub par, it will show as long as they truely want to support the ORG productively. This is what causes so much politics, to exclude anyone who wants to be a part of an organisation for the betterment of FMA is counterproductive. There are many FMA practitoners that are very good because they have been able to train in different systems, to have to identify with one and maybe slight the others would be a sign of disloyalty.
    Sad but true. How many can openly claim in the Philippines that they studied many systems without being disowned by the previous ones for claiming the current ones? Politics , politics but that's for all Martial Arts in general. I hope you can pull this off. it would be nice to have some formal organisation who's sole focus is the promotion of all systems FMA and delve in the similarities but enjoy the differences....a Buffet of systems for all to taste...I'm getting hungry :p

    BTW . paso could be taken as meaning... Burned! or worse.. an infected :eek: Boil!

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2004
  14. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I feel that as long as you can prove that you have been practicing the FMA under the instruction of reconised instructors, not just someone who has set up a group purley to profit from it's popularity which does happen a lot here in the UK. The the whole point of P.A.S.O. is to promote the FMA as a whole be it a recognised group, style, organsation or even family style (after all most styles started as family styles. In otherwords doe the Eskrimador have a checkable background in FMA or have they just made up a style with no expeariance what so ever, after all real Eskrimadors have no desire to be associated with those who claim to have expeariance knowing full well they have either seen it on Video or done one or two classes and think "Hey, I know, I can make a few bucks from this teaching this to people who do not know any better"
    How do we check that someone is as they say Authentic, well that is down to the real Eskrimadors, that is why the organsation will have no head, only area adminsitrators and as well as this the membership is FREE so we have nothing to lose by banding together and everything to gain for the FMA.

    Before I fully set up the organsation I will need feed back like you have just given me and ideas that you feel that we can adopt to make sure that the Org, is completely un-biased and open to all true Eskrimadors, Arnisadors, Kalista's, Yaw Yawnists etc, etc.

    At the end of the the day, we have to do something that in a way we are doing on this forum, talk, discuss and even disagree and come up with a middleground that will make the majority of us all happy to be brothers in arms. We will not please everyone, but that is life, but if we can get the majority to band together and show a united front I know that the FMA will become bigger and better in the future.

    Mabuhay


    Pat O'Malley
     
  15. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Pat

    Can you give us some more details on "P.A.S.O?" What will it's role be and what exactly do you see it doing to promote and achieve it's aims?
     
  16. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Firstly, to let the general public know that there is more to martial arts than Karate or Kung Fu (No offense).

    To also provide a database of genuine instructors because they are hard to find, a lot of people have come across FMA by accident usually when training in another art first, we need to encourage people to look directly for FMA instructors and give them a selection of instructors and styles to choose from.

    To show the public that there is more than just stickfighting when it comes to FMA and to show that there is more than just one style, as no one style will suit everyone.

    To help the public avoid the flyby night cowboy stick twirlers who have seen it in a magazine or Bruce Lee movie and bought a training video and then decided that they can now teach this little known art to the unsuspecting public.

    To provide a FREE service and to spread the word of how great the FMA really is.

    To give a home to authentic instructors even those who have fallen out with their group and have been told they cant teach such and such stlye anymore all due to a political disagreement for example, but those instructors still have the knowledge and qualifications to teach authentic FMA under a different name or title, they still know their stuff as they say.

    And finally, to try and bring everyone under one banner with no politics, no fees and no one person incharge (any instructor that want's to be can be an administrator, e.g. collect information about clubs and styles and events and post them on the web) membership is FREE and is purely to prove we have the numbers to gain the recognition we deserve.

    It will be an organisation with no political view, you are not directly linked with anyother member, style, system or group on the database. It is purely an organsation with the sole purpose of the promotion of the FMA as a unified organsation. No one individual, group, style, system or other organsation within PASO will hold any allegiance to any other members, groups, styles, systems. organisations or it's members.

    We need to make the FMA a recognised art with Governments around the world that can be held on par with, or even held in higher esteme than other martial arts systems that already have this Government recognition.

    The only rule that P.A.S.O. will have is this. "Do not bad mouth other bonfied FMA styles, groups, systems or organisations" everone who promotes FMA in any way in a good light should be a member of P.A.S.O. and is a benefit to the FMA as a whole.

    If we can all pull together under one banner we can show the world just how big the FMA really is.

    Mabuhay


    Pat O'Malley
     
  17. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Sounds good Pat. Count me and my merry band of stickbashers IN if you'll have us :D

    If you need to know anything about us just PM me.
     
  18. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Will do, will PM you soon and will let you know when the web site is up, we have a few members already and all on word of mouth (a few big names too).

    Let you all know more soon.


    Pat
     
  19. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Cheers mate
     
  20. neokensei

    neokensei New Member

    My two cents..again:

    Hi,

    Whoa...isn't that like a ripoff? :D 2k a month (though, I've heard of a certain teacher who charges this much...)? I remember Kendo being just 500 a month (400 even...)...but yeah, the seminars are expensive (or free... :D ).

    As to why (practice arts other than FMAs)? Everyone has their own reason (wasn't this discussed in another thread, even the points and my counterpoints on the whole 'its seen by so-and-so as the poor's MA'?). Mine being that I got into Arnis realtively late (having been introduced to other philosophies first). Not that I don't appreciate Arnis, which I still practice, but that I tend to practice what appeals to me: As I promote and practice Japanese and Chinese internal arts, so do I promote arnis. If I didn't find arnis appealing, then would I bother with it? NO. Same goes for any martial art that I've encountered.

    And I don't really know about the push of FMAs as 'sariling atin' ('our own' or 'something from our culture') to filipinos, MAers or not, should even be a focus. I think, and forgive my ignorance if this has been pointed out before, that FMAs should be promoted according to their own merits. Period. Just as with any martial art. Instead of saying that Arnis/Escrima/Kali is 'sariling atin', lay down, instead, its claims of being a practical MA. If Kendo has its claims of self-cultivation, Hsing-I its focused intent, Tai Chi its health benefits, then why not insist/say/proclaim to filipinos that arnis/escrima/kali is very practical.
    My point of view: I don't care if *insert name of popular figure* practiced that martial art or if it won *insert competition* or if it came from *insert culture or country*, if I don't find any merits or personal appeal in it, then why will I study it? (yes...a somewhat redundant statement...forgive me, I came from arnis practice...sooo tired :Angel: )

    I hope to god I made sense... :)

    Oh...and the P.A.S.O. thing seems like a good idea. I just hope its free of some of the ugliness I witnessed some time back when FMA teachers from many styles were brought together in one place (It was a hotel along Roxas...I was there with the editor of a local publication...I remember one comment, in particular, when the topic of arnis being taught in schools was brought up and, I think, the style that should be used became an issue..and the comment was something like: 'let's all go out, and the last man standing's style will be the one' :cry: )

    Oh well....may your efforts bear sweet fruits. :)

    Mabuhey,

    J.
    -Kendo (prov. Ikkyu), Wushu - basic taolu, Tai Chi Chuan, Hsing-I Chuan, Pa Kua Chang Basics, Doce Pares, Modern Cruzada (Ateneo), Pistol (stoopid gun bans...), some other stuff...
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2004

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