fighting vs self defense

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Shihan, Apr 22, 2005.

  1. Shihan

    Shihan Valued Member


    I have trained in western boxing, san shou, hapkido and some jiujutsu. I have come to the conclusion that there's a relative differance between a fight and a self defense scenario. In a fight (for whatever the reason) two people decide to square off against each other. At that point it becomes a match of skills, wills and who wants it more. It a SD scenario, the attacker tries to get the upper hand and takes you by suprise. If you play along until you see an openning then strike, he has no ideal what's coming. So actually, you're suprising him. Agree or Disagree? Thoughts ?
  2. Jonny_B

    Jonny_B New Member

    couldn't agree more..

    there is less of an adrenalin rush in SD for the victim also..and therefore is a weakness. it is initially taken over by shock, which gives the attacker an advantage... he/she knows what is about to happen, the victim hasn't a clue.

    whereas in a straight forward fight you are both ready for action and have plans of attack.

  3. American HKD

    American HKD New Member


    Shihan Agreed.

    Also SD is generally over very quickly a couple of moves and finished.

    A competition is again in the sport realm two well trained players squaring off, both know the same thing and what the other's strong or weak points are, so on and so forth. It's like any game sports foorball, B Ball, Hockey, Boxing is a great example.
  4. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    I disagree partially with you.

    My thoughts are that not all fights are self defence (i.e. they can be ring matches or the like) and not all self defence is fighting (Running away, verbally difusing a situation) but as soon as physical contest begins between you and someone else outside a ring then it is a fight AND (This is the really amazing part) its self defence as well!!

    Even if they have some huge advantage over you (i.e jumped you from behind, hava a knife) if you are going to try to get their body to do something their mind doesnt want it to you have to fight them.

    If you claim that you train for self defence I say thats fine, its what I do myself, but if you say that then use it as an excuse not to fight anyone in trainning because it wont be "realistic" then I feel that I have to take issue with it.

    Not meaning to be harsh here but thats just the way I see it, to me a lot of people say that sparring isnt realistic so they wont do it but then practice drillson non resisting opponents which I cant see as being in any way more realistic than sparring?
  5. JimH

    JimH Valued Member

    In a fight ,either as sport or street,two people basically agree to an encounter,both can formulate an attack,who ever gets their attack off first begins with the upper hand as action is always faster than reaction.

    Both know the encounter will happen,anticipation may increase heart rate but not to the extent a surprise attack does.

    In a surprise encounter,surprise shifts the body into Adrenaline dump,(fight or flight), heart rate increases automatically,sometimes reaching 200 beats per minute in a real surprise,this fact alone has an effect on our ability to respond in that our heart rate (200 bpm) is beyond that which allows us to perform fine and complex motor skills,we can only perform gross motor skills.

    The higher heart rate also has an effect on our vision,hearing and it limits the amount of time we have to fight and win.

    The attacker, in a true surprise, has the upper hand in that they do not enter the encounter at that higher heart rate,(depending on how many times they have done this act) they may have little rise in heart rate,this fact also greatly favors the attacker and goes against us as he/she is most likely still in heart rate zones to allow them to perform,fine,complex and gross motor skills,and they may not have entered narrowed vision and hearing loss zones as we have.

    True surprise cannot be accomplished or recreated in civilian training as we cannot control where or when a person will be at a certain place and time to attack them to see the response.

    Any attempt to create surprise in training is far short of the desired effect as the brain knows something is going to happen,so we are still in a comfort zone and never reach the higher Heart rates that will greatly limit our reponse.

    The best we can do as civilians is to train to react to the attackers actions,get the upper hand quickly ,go on the offense and defeat them.

    If we train to exchange ,give and take blows,or always react and wait for an opening we are slowly making ourselves out to be defeated.

    The victor in a fight or in a self defense scenario is the person who can act or react fast enough to gain the upper hand,have momentum,go offensive and defeat the enemy quickly,while dealing with ,or in, the varied stages/levels of Adrenaline dump.

    The more closely our training is, or has been, to the encounter the more likely we are to stay in the lower level of adreanline dump and the more tools (fine ,complex and gross) we will have available to us for use and the better our chances for victory.

    Training needs to allow us to see and quickly identify an attackers intent to cause us harm and to act immedialtely to the threat with controlled violence of action (if any one knows military or police shoot /no shoot scenario training it is similar).

    If we round a corner and bump into, or encounter, someone our hands should immediately come up to a non threatening preparatory stance and if a threat is made then we act,if it is innocent then we do not look hostile and we can move on.

    Quick identification of the threat is paramount,proper/timely response is critical .
  6. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    Personally I would say fighting and self defence go hand in hand. When you are self defending you are fighting to keep safe and get away, in a fight you are fighting to beat the other guy up. They are similar but different

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