Fighters suspended?

But you are never going to get just facts on a chat page, you are going to get peoples biased points of view so you are approaching this the wrong way.

Sounds to me like you also want to start a hate campaign and you are takng this more personally than your original post suggests.

Contact WEKAF GB and WEKAF HQ these are the official bodies involved and the only ones able to provide facts.

Best regards

Lucy

 

From an outsiders point of view

Briefly If you look, there is no me in Team!!, we are talking about the British team, but if you look closely there is a ME!, sounds like the `` David Beckham`` of British F.M.A, has been dropped from the team,

if this team member is Fillpino as opposed to British then perhaps he should be fighting for a different team?, or eligble to compete through a different assocaitions country?,

if John Harvey is racist then make an official complaint to the british council of F.M.A. they have an equal opputunties policy, follow it?, use there officail complaint protocol, if not borrow one from the Sport England and use it.

re forming limtied companies ths is ofetn used to protect assets and liabilities.

If they dont play ball using the above, then differnet stickfighting world championships will evolove just like Boxing and every ohter ball sahped sport,

and every other Martial arts group.
who wants to hold a national chamiopnship event.

I think the sooner the supension is served the player is rsted and back in the team, he can become ``EM``. in the TE.

perhaps he was badly treated, but its quite a claim these days in the U.K with acts based in Law to protect both individual and organisations.

Arbitration is the key here?, not forum gossip as lucy points out it doenst help anyone.

If its an individual championship, and its open to everyone, then there no british team?

surley the point is its the british team, and some one has to run it, and fighters are part of a team have to followo the manages descions,

if its that bad, then the mangers get sacked like Glen hoddle did for ``one remark``

and one maner for just bad resultsa from the worlds best players!!!!.

so its all balance between all groups is it not?

KIndest
Jo

ps found some more coppers for brekkie!!

 

I'm not taking it personally at all and why would I want to start a hate campaign? This is not a chat page, this is an internet forum for the discussion about all things to do with martial arts, I read somthing online and wanted to find out further info so I came here to see if anyone else could shed some light on the matter.

 

Guys, this is not aimed at anyone in particular but I'd just like to remind you all that any accusations against somebody need to be supported with hard evidence and not hearsay.

Also, if you are so worked up about this why not invite Ermar, Diane (who are members of this forum) and John to make a statement in this thread. Anything else is hearsay and can be easily twisted by the messenger.

 

From and insiders point of view.

OK, you where asked to speak to the correct people regarding this matter and not to wash others dirty laundry on a public forum/chat page, especially as you are not privy to all the details regarding this matter and you where asked to ask your instructor who may or may not be privy to more information than you before jumping to conclusions. But obviously you did not want to let it be done through the correct channels so I will let you in on the facts of the whole stupid situation that led to these two players being suspended. Not banned, suspended.

But before I do and to make it clear why I can say I am telling you from an insiders point of view. I will give you a brief run down of who exactly I am with regards to WEKAF and WEKAF GB. Maybe that way you will see why I can speak from a point of authority on this subject.

I have been involved with WEKAF for some 20 years, first as a fighter winning over 40 British, European and World WEKAF Titles, then as Vice Captain, Captain, GB Team Coach, World Tournament Director, International Adjudicator, Referee and Judge, World Treasurer, Secretary and World Vice President, a member of the WEKAF Executive Board for many years and more recently the Election Officer at the 2008 WEKAF World Congress, I am also mentioned with thanks in the newly released WEKAF Rules Handbook along with Lucy O’Malley, who herself was an Assistant Coach to Team GB, Fighter and International Judge and Referee as well as a winner of numerous British, European and World Titles. I also helped along with John Harvey to introduce most of the European Countries that are involved with WEKAF today. I could go on about just how heavily involved I have been with WEKAF over the years and my knowledge of the rules and regulations that govern each country, but I don’t want to bore you or go into a book on the subject god knows my response is long enough, but I think you get the drift.

Now lets look at the rules that have guided WEKAF GB since it’s formation back in 1993 (By the way WEKAF in Britain is a charter member of WEKAF since it’s formation back in 1989 although the term WEKAF GB was only adopted in 1993 when myself and Master John Harvey took over from Master Bob Breen when he retired from WEKAF in 1993 it was known before that as the British Kali Eskrima Federation), it was then that the rules as they still stand today where adopted as part of the constitution of WEKAF GB and accepted by the WEKAF International Board of Directors.

WEKAF GB Team selection and qualification:

A person will be eligible to be selected for British Squad Training and possible GB Team Selection if they:

• Compete at both British Championship Qualifying Tournaments over the previous year, regardless of previous honours at either national or international tournaments.
• Are placed in the medals table at one or both Qualifying tournaments.
• Show outstanding ability regardless of medal position.

A GB Squad member will be eligible for team selection on the following conditions.

• That they attend all squad training sessions.
• They train to the best of their abilities during these sessions.
• A GB Team member will not be allowed to miss any session unless it is in extreme circumstances and full notice or reason is given in advance.
• Missing more than 1 session (with good reason) will forfeit your position on the team.

Reasons for missing training sessions that may be accepted are as follows as long as good warning is given to the team coaches:

• Sever illness.
• Family death.
• Sever injury.

GB Squad training sessions are known from a year up to 2 years in advance, all members that are selected for the GB Squad must adjust their calendars appropriately.

The two GB Team Head Coaches will make the final selection for the Official GB Team. Their selection decision is final.

Being selected for the GB Squad does not mean you are automatically selected for the Official WEKAF GB Team.

How do I know these rules so well, well simple really I wrote them to fall in line with the WEKAF World Constitution.

Now lets look at the situation as it happened:

On the first GB Squad training session both Ermar and Diana approach Master John Harvey (the Head GB Team Coach) and informed him that they would be missing certain Squad Training Sessions for events such as the Filipino Festival and other events which would have meant missing no less that 4 from the 8 sessions. OK one of these sessions would have been when they where flying out to the Philippines ahead of the rest of the GB Team and this I am sure would have been seen as a reasonable excuse if it where the only session they where scheduled to miss, but it was not.

Master John Harvey spoke to them and informed them that he could not stop them attending these events but they would have to consider the consequences if they did.

Now bearing in mind Ermar Alexander has been a long time member of the British Team, so he himself knew full well the rules of team selection but chose to ignore the advise of the Head Team Coach.

[My Note: Attending seminars and Filipino Festivals unfortunately are not reasonable excuses, I know I used to attend and demo at these very same events back in the early and mid 90’s, but when Squad Training was being held I would send others who where not on the GB Squad training session to demo in my place. Any seminars that where scheduled during Squad training where also not attended by myself or any other members of the British Squad.]

After missing what I believe was the second session and with no valid reason (they where attending a seminar by GM Danny Guba) both parties where informed that they where not eligible for the team that would compete at the 2008 WEKAF World Championships in Cebu, Philippines.

Now this is not the first time this has happened to anyone, I know I have also refused people qualification from the GB Team for missing sessions in previous years on many occasions, ask any of the long standing members of the GB Team (or the individuals themselves, whom I am still great friends with by the way) who remember me as Coach and they will tell you I was much harsher than the current Coaches are now. It would be fair to estimate that once training starts that from a squad of around 35 to 40 people you may be lucky to have a final team of around 20 to 25 players for one reason or another.

This is not the first time a defending World Champion has been refused entry on to the British Team either, there have been so far (including Ermar Alexander) no less than 4 defending World Champions refused Team Selection for not abiding by the qualification requirements of the team. Their refusal was not because of who they where or their ethnic origin, and 2 of them where my very own senior students, it was because of their lack of attendance plain and simple and this very same reason is why Ermar Alexander and Diana Fauner where refused entry on to the WEKAF GB Team.

Now lets take it another step further into this fiasco, because that is what it is, a fiasco.

After Ermar and Diana received their official letter informing them that they had failed to make the WEKAF GB Team, they then went on to the internet and started a petition claiming that both GB Team Coaches where racist and it was for this reason they where knocked off the team. Now the training partner and Assistant GB Team Coach of Master John Harvey is Jude Tucker, Jude is from Sri Lanka by they way. And Ermar and Diana are not the first Filipino’s to be on the British team either, their have been many and I am sure their will be many more.

Now this petition not only claimed racism it then proceeded to receive slanderous and libellous remarks from many individuals not only in the direction of the GB Team Coaches, but also in the direction of other WEKAF Officials around the world including GM Dionisio Canete who is Chairman Emeritus (I have printed copies of this petition as do many of the International WEKAF Directors). This is where the suspension starts to look more likely.

Obviously there where e-mails travelling back and forth claiming this that and the next thing, before, during and after the world championships, but the only real reason both parties where excluded from the GB Team at the World Championships was simply because they did not abide by the team selection rules, and this was getting all out of hand.

I was asked to arbitrate this situation by the Chairman of WEKAF simply because I knew both parties and the fact that my wife was also excluded from the GB team back in 2002, to which I started to discuss this with the GB Team Coaches and my wife suggested it would be best that she talk to both Ermar and Diana and offer to see if we could help as she herself was in a similar situation in the past, they refused saying they did not need any help and her case was not in any way the same.

Anyway regardless of this during this time it was suggested that there may be a possibility that Ermar Alexander and Diana Fauner may be able to compete for the Philippine Team (even though they did not qualify) which both of them immediately accepted. Now both GB Team Coaches said they where not bothered who they competed for but after their petition on the internet claiming racism they certainly would not be competing for WEKAF GB this time around as they had brought the good name of WEKAF GB and it’s Officials in to a bad light. Their action did not win any favours with the rest of the team either and it was felt that the team would be much happier with their exclusion this time around.

As it turns out, the rules state quite clearly that in order for a person to represent any country at any WEKAF International event, they must be residents of that country, Ermar and Diana are not residents of the Philippines, they are residents of GB. So this is where the problem really starts to go out of whack.

During this time Ermar and Diana also petitioned the WEKAF International Board of Directors who had already been discussing this matter for some time in great detail (I also had numerous discussions with many of the Country Directors and Executive Board Members of WEKAF regarding this matter and the consequences it may have for WEKAF as a whole) and they finally backed (based on the evidence and facts before them) the decision of the WEKAF GB Coaches and Country Director to refuse them entry to the World Championships.

Once it was realised that both Ermar Alexander and Diana Fauner would not be competing for the Philippine Team or any other team for that matter, only then did they approach the GB Team Coaches on the day of the World Championships to try to remedy the situation and to see if there was a way to apologise and regain their positions on the GB Team. Obviously as you can gather this was more like trying to lock the gate after the horse had bolted situation and accusing both GB Team Coaches of Racism is a serious allegation that cannot be taken lightly by anyone, so I am sure you can understand what sort of reaction they would have received from the GB Team Coaches at this late stage.

Also because the rumour was spreading of the possible inclusion of Ermar and Diana on the Philippine Team, this started to have a domino effect in that many Filipino’s who had not qualified for the Philippine team where now trying to place themselves on teams such as Ireland, USA, Norway, Poland etc and some players who did not qualify for the USA team where now trying to get themselves put on the Mexican and Philippine teams. As I said, it was all getting out of hand and WEKAF started to look like it was going to suffer badly and the Championships was turning pear shaped simply because of two begrudged individuals who where taking advantage of the good nature of the individuals who where trying to run a tournament with no arguments and uproar. So WEKAF refused them entry to the world championships.

Oh and by the way it was not the Team Coaches that invoked the suspension on these two individuals they only deal with selecting the GB Team from the Squad members, it was the WEKAF GB President and it’s Committee that invoked the suspension for what they feel is good reason after discussions with both parties who tried to enter a national WEKAF event recently. And before anyone states this again, WEKAF GB has had a Committee/Board of Directors and Constitution since 1996. I know I helped set it up and still have the original documents of the first meeting of the Committee in my files.

What is strange if the allegations where true then why where none of Ermar Alexander’s students banned from fighting at the world championships? Some of whom are also Filipino by the way. And why have none of them been suspended from competing or officiating at WEKAF GB events? And this is clearly stated on the WEKAF GB Web Site which clearly states:

Mr Ermar Alexander and Ms Diana Fauner have been suspended from entering WEKAF GB events for an indefinite period of time.
Both Mr Alexander and Ms Fauner have also had their WEKAF GB membership suspended for an indefinite period of time.
This suspension does not affect any of Mr Alexander’s students/or his club members. Both Mr Alexander and Ms Fauner will be allowed to support members of their own club.
Neither Mr Alexander nor Ms Fauner will be allowed to compete or judge or take part in any way in any WEKAF GB event.
Mr Alexander and Ms Fauner will not be allowed in any way to put themselves forward for selection to the National Squad or Team.
This suspension will be periodically reviewed.
01-October-2008

Now let’s clear this racist rubbish up once and for all.

Now I have known Master John Harvey for nearly 30 years and yes we have had a few differences of opinions in the past especially when it came to WEKAF GB Team training, I resigned from the coaching side back in 2000 and from the executive board and fighting in 2001 but I can tell you this, the one thing that Master John Harvey or Jude Tucker for that matter certainly are not a racist. Master Harvey does not hate Doce Pares either as it has been claimed by some, I was his sparring partner for 20 years and I’m Doce Pares and he has attended many Doce Pares events, training sessions and seminars over the years and is a long time friend of GM Dionisio Canete. He has also along with myself been and adviser to the Philippine Embassy’s here in the UK and in France in the early and mid 90’s, he has attended and held demo’s at many of the Filipino Festivals over the years that Ermar and Diana now attend (following advise of Lucy and myself during the first FMA Festival in 2006 when GM Danny Guba introduced Ermar to us advising us he had just passed his first black belt in Guba Doce Pares the previous day, we also advised him to get involved with the Philippine Embassy in London).

Master John Harvey has had students from all races including the Philippines train under him both as an instructor and GB Team Coach. So no, he is not racist and for anyone to accusing him of such is an insult not only to him but also to all of our fellow FMA brothers and sisters, the Philippines and to the 30 plus years he has dedicated to spreading the FMA around Europe and the international relationship he has built within WEKAF across the world..

And as Lucy so clearly stated in an earlier post, if it where not for the likes of Master John Harvey and his years of dedication to the sport side of FMA here in the UK and around Europe, there would be no WEKAF GB and Ermar would never have heard of WEKAF in the first place. And if where not for individuals like Master John Harvey we would have fewer WEKAF World Champions, I know I owe many of my titles to his Coaching over the years as do countless other World Champions of numerous races including Filipino’s who have fought and won for Great Britain and the only reward he receives from Coaching is a headache and the pleasure of seeing his team members do their best on the day. A team that has since 1994 always been placed in the top 3 on the medals table at world level (2nd in 1998 & 2002) even though it is usually one of the smallest teams attending the world championships and has since 1993 won the European overall championship title for 8 consecutive championships. WEKAF GB has always been respected the world over since it’s involvement with WEKAF from 1989 onwards for it’s fairness and un-biased approach to the sport that is why many countries do not even complain when a British person is officiating their fight even if it is against another Brit. And all because WEKAF GB and it’s Coaches have rules to team selection and abide by them, then because two individuals shout racist for not abiding by the rules, all of a sudden John Harvey and WEKAF GB are racist. Yeah OK.

Put it this way, if you where selected to compete for the British Olympic Team and you where told that you HAD to attended X amount of training sessions to be eligible for a place at the games, even though you where already an Olympic Gold Medallist, would you miss out on that chance simply because of a festival that can be attended by your fellow members of your organisation some of whom are your seniors? No, I didn’t think so. When you are selected to compete for your country at any world championships, everything else for that short period of time has to come second including you family and social life, that is true of any sport and any world champion will tell you that is what makes them world champions in the first place, even more so for repeat world champions.

Ask yourself this. How may festivals, events, seminars or what ever do you think Sebastian Coe attended in place of his training to become multiple Olympic Gold medallist and World Champion, how many times did he have to miss a family gathering because he had to train to be sure he won his next event, how many GB team sessions did he miss in favour of attending an event to promote his sport to his own countrymen?

If David Beckam is the worlds best footballer and the best thing that ever happened to the England team, why was he dropped from the team? Was it because the Coach is racist against Essex boys, or was he just not up to scratch?

If you play the racist card because you are excluded from something, then you had better make dam sure you are 100% right and have all the facts in front of you before going down that nasty road because there is no turning back once you make a bold statement like that, and you better be willing to take it all the way to the correct authorities too and make a point of getting the racist disciplined through the correct channels or it will simply turn around and bite you in the backside and all those associated with you innocent parties included.

I am aware that there are now Solicitor’s involved in this accusation that are seriously looking at slander and liable all you people are doing is adding fuel to an already burning fire. If you don’t know the full fact’s you have no right to pass judgement on anyone now do you?

Now some people are going on as if winning a WEKAF World Title is the be all and end all of your FMA Career, just because you win a WEKAF World Title this does not automatically relate to you being a good instructor of the FMA, I have seen individuals who solely concentrate of the sport side of Eskrima do really well but still have no clue about the art as a whole, the sport is less than 1% of the art and if we are honest about it, it is but a training tool where you can train certain attributes in a limited environment, but on it’s own it bears little or no real relation to the art as a whole. It’s fun and it is a good way to pressure test yourself and yes we all like to win in any sporting event we take part in, and what better accolade to get than being champion of the world. But remember it is a SPORT and not the ART.

Some people also seem to think that if they become a WEKAF World Champion then they have made it as a top class instructor of the FMA. Wrong. Do you know just how many WEKAF World Champion’s there really are? Do the maths, at a WEKAF World Championships there is somewhere in the region of 52 categories, ranging from various Sayaw (Forms) division, single and double stick sparring which is in numerous weight categories including male, female, kid’s boys and girls, veterans 40+ and 50+ and team events. Now the championships has been running for about 20 years, that’s 10 World Championships, times that by 52 and you already have 520 world titles up for grabs. So with that we should have 520 top class FMA instructors and a good proportion of them in the UK.

How many people who have become world champions or winners of numerous world titles have actually made it to the top of their field and are recognised as national and international instructors? Less than 1%, as a matter of fact I can count them on two hands and still have a finger or two to spare. Have they become top class instructors because of their WEKAF titles? No they have not, they have become top class instructors because of their dedication and understanding of the art and their ability to communicate that art to others.

So in the greater scheme of things, if someone does not make the WEKAF GB team this time around, they can, if they are sensible and train hard enough and abide by the team selection process, qualify next time round. Will it make a difference to their career as an FMA instructor. Not at all, many world class instructors, Masters and Grand Masters have never even been to a WEKAF tournament, let alone participated in one. So take a look at the bigger picture. Yes WEKAF helps to promote the art in many ways but it is not the art and the art can survive without it if we are realistic about it. And that is coming from someone who knows a little more about WEKAF and winning its titles than most.

But bad publicity such as accusations of racism will not only damage WEKAF as a whole it will also damage the art as a whole, especially if the allegations are unfounded or simply put out of anger. And people harping on about it and jumping to all sorts of conclusions who are not privy to the facts are actually doing more damage than those people who made the allegations in the first place and should be ashamed of them selves.

Best regards

Pat

 

Hi Pat,

Out of interest (this is a genuine question, please don't think I'm asking out of sarcasm!), what are your thought's on the general standard of refereeing/judging and decision making at WEKAF events in the UK at the moment? I know there were some initiatives to drive forward on judges workshops etc. to bring the standars up, but at the moment it still doesn't seem as transparent or fair as it should be. I know of someone who was asked to judge a match during his first ever event! I've also seen on several occasions 1 to 3 of judges scoring a match who were from the same school as one of the competitors. Surely if the judging standard isn't bought up to scratch, it leads to bad blood between individuals and organisations, further fuelling feuds like the one outlined on this thread.

 

Yes the judging could be better it can always be better and more people need to put themselves forward for these possitions. The problem here is everyone wants to be a champion and no one wants to officiate, that has always been the problem.

But you cant complain about the judging unless you yourself are willing to put yourself and members of your group foreward to take on this task. If only a limited amount of people are willing to sit there all day and judge and referee then you cant expect anything to get better. People by human nature will have their own veiws of what is a good fighter and what is not and at no time was Ermar discriminated against for his ability or ethnic orrigin or he would not have won the titles he did would he?

A fighter is allowed by the rules of the game to object to any judge and give no reason, the officials have to change those judges as stated in the rules. But to stop tournaments over running because of delays you can only object once in every bout and accept the changes that are made. Limited judges will mean you will get conflicts of interest for some, but you have to work with the tools you have dont you?

Ermar and his group at no time put themselves forward to take on this task, surely someone of Ermar's expeariance was more than capable of judging WEKAF bouts?

If your not willing to work to put it right and only willing to shout foul when it does not go your way then to be honest that is your own fault for not trying to put it right in the first place is it not.

You cant change things for the better from the outside shouting in, you have to be on the inside looking out for everyone and not just yourself.

As it is human nature that most people would rather blame the officials for them losing as opposed to blaming their lack of training or ability for their loss. For the most part people lose simply because they are not good enough yet, accept it, it is the nature of any sport. And casting accusations on someones racial outlook because you did not like what happend to you is discusting.

And if the judging is considered to be bad then that begs the question, did Ermar win his titles because of bad judging? Makes you think eh?

Best regards

Pat

 

Without delving into the issues about Ermar, I agree with your points, however I will add that it's surely up to WEKAF themselves to ensure that the adjudication at their bouts is fair and transparent, and that they have a clear set of guidelines for judging and scoring. This can't and shouldn't be the competitors responsibility, impartial judging and refereeing should be established and maintained by the organising comitee.

Perhaps what they need is to go some ways toward establishing qualified judges and officials, not competitors themselves being asked to score or judge fights? Perhaps some sort of mandatory judging workshops and/or people only being allowed to judge if they are qualified and impartial as far as the fight goes (e.g. they are not from the same school or organisation as any of the fighters)? Just my thoughts.

 

Yes your right and it has been tried time and time again, but only a handfull of non competitors have been willing to take on this task, for the most part it has beend the competitors that have been willing to step up to the mark and officiate, and to be honest who better to understand the rules of the game than those who actually participate in the game.

As I said everyone wants to be a champion and no one wants to simply officiate and it is no good shouting foul unless you are willing to step up to the mark and fix it is it?

How many people do you know are willing to step up and say, Hey I just want to judge or referee? And the main reason most of the competitors are willing to step up is simply because they know if they dont they will be sitting around all day waiting for someone who is willing to sit and officiate their fight and many others.

Best regards

Pat

 

And to be frank about this, judging and refereeing is not solely a GB Problem, it is a problem world wide, I officiated at the last world championships simply because there where a lack of individuals willing to do so. I was on holiday and was for once watching the championships for fun. And yes most of the Judges and Referees even at the world championships where fighters and those that where not fighters for the most part where former fighters.

Best regards

Pat

 

And who would you rather judge your fight, someone who is expearianced in playing the game and knows the rules inside out from a competitors point of view, or someone who has simply done a 1 day course? I know which one I would prefer.

As I have said countless times, the sport is not the art it is it's own unque beast.

Best regards

Pat

 

Although the subject seems to have gone off course, I will prove that no matter how fair you try to be, people are going to find fault with it:

When I was fighting at the Worlds in Cebu back in 2000, I reached the final against an Irish girl, there was one British judge, one Irish judge and a Filipino Judge.

(That year they had run a programme where they trained up individuals of the public in Cebu over x number of courses and paid them to attend the world championships as unbiased judges. We of course all thought oh no! people that do not know or understand the sport judging, it will be a disaster. But it wasn't, I actually saw some of the fairest judging ever and no-one could quibble the results, they had been trained quite well)

The filipino judge was one of these trained up members of the public.

However, the Irish girl complained about the judges, a British (I was British) an Irish (She was Irish) and a unbiased Filipino that neither of us knew. Haha!

So she asked to have the judges changed. when they sugested put an American in she refused, when they made many suggestions she kept finding reasons that it would not go her way. I even said put 3 Irish judges in, but it was decided that probably was not a good idea so the only option left was to put 3 of these unbiased Filipino's in that neither of us knew as they were new to the arena.

I won the world title......guess what?

She complained and her team coach complained to the adjudicators and their excuse was, it was obvious they liked me better and that they did not judge the fight fairly, hahahaha! (But she was the one that said it was o.k to have them, she had made the change and made the choice of who they had judge, I just agreed to it)

You cannot do enough to make it fair and people still find fault with it, when it does not go their way.

And to be honest even at the British championships you can change the judges once and there is an adjudicator overseeing the refereeing and judging and they have the power to change the referee's and judges at any point if they can see it causing a future complaint, they can check the scoring and can watch for biased judging by checking the scorecards which allows them to descreetly remove a judge without offending anyone, they want it to run as smoothly as possible too. (Do you really think they want people moaning and shouting after each fight???)

All the safety measures are already in place, nothing needs changing other than a large influx of judges. There should maybe be a rule brought in that insists that each participating team attending a tournament puts forward a minimum of 5 judges or something, but also that everyone does the judging on a fair rotation as it used to annoy me that I would be sat there all day and have to ask to go to the toilet when I was also fighting, because they daren't let me go, knowing I was a good judge and had not ever had a complaint aimed at me.

Best regards

Lucy

 

I just like to say thanks to everyone here for keeping this discussion calm and to the point.

 

I have in the past had a whole devision restarted from scratch because of unfair judging of one of my students years ago, which shows if you have a good reason and approach the situation through the official channels that are set out on the day for that event it can be changed and dealt with correctly.

So maybe there is just a lack of understanding of the rules and not knowing how to play within the rules. Perhaps more fighters need to make the effort to learn the rules, because they are there already.

As sometimes silly things like not knowing you are allowed 20 minutes rest between fights can be the difference between winning and losing if you fight within that timeframe. But if you are greedy enough to fight in more divisions other than your own, that rule does not apply to different divisions only your own. You should be hot on the rules as it helps you to enjoy it more too, it is all a game, have fun with it.

If you lose to what you think was bad judging, just come back stronger next time and blatently win your fights, no one can say you lost if you win the fight hands down, it would look bad on them otherwise.

And If you get caught breaking the rules, deal with it!

Best regards

Lucy

 

For me, this thread has only served to highlight all that is bad in FMA. All too often I sit here reading threads that run people down and make us look like we practise politics, not a martial art and all too often the same people seem to be at the centre of it.

FMA is an amazing art, it is very diverse and has a lot to offer. As some people have already mentioned, the sport side is only a small aspect of what we do. I feel sorry for Ermar and Diana, as I never seem to read threads that they have written. People seem to talk for them, so we never hear from the horses mouth so to speak.

I for one do not take part in WEKAF tournaments, however if I was interested in WEKAF this kind of thread would put me right off. And it doesnt paint a good picture of Ermar and co.

So as previously mentioned, unless the people who this affects directly want to get involved I suggest we stop discussing them in the open forum. Pat is quite right, if it has gone to solicitors then we should take a step back.

WEKAF already looks bad enough because of all this. But rules are rules and I admire all at the HQ for upholding them! As for the racisim slant, that is crazy and I think we best leave that one well alone!

 

As you say, in your opinion, I would beg to differ and state that two of the best fighters in this country at the moment are Neil McLeod and Glynn Daniels, Neil is one of the most exciting fighters I have had the pleasure to meet and Glynn, well 6 WEKAF World titles, what more do I need to say? Then there is of course people like Rodger Barns I watched him fight and win in Cebu this year, boy has he got talent. Then of course the vets such as John James top class and has been for many years and winner of numerous British, European and World Titles and still competing at the top, so no I would beg to differ with your opinion on who is the best in GB at the moment.

 

I don’t see what they would gain either personally of politically from suspending two Doce Pares fighters, bearing I mind that WEKAF World Wide is made up of over 80% of Doce Pares with its membership and Board of Directors, Do you? If so please inform us as I am sure we would al like to know.

As for not seeing a diverse and exciting array of fighters in WEKAF GB because of one person’s suspension, you could not be further from the truth. I watched the WEKAF GB team with interest at the last world championships and I can say they are just as diverse and exciting as they have always been, and they got the crowd going on more than one occasion. You have to remember that one man does not make a team but one man can pull it apart given the right situation, Ask David Beckam England won and lost before he arrived and won and lost after he left.

I personally have took part in hundreds of bouts in WEKAF both nationally and internationally and I have watched thousands upon thousands of bouts in addition to that, and you do get to the stage where you begin to see one fight looking very much like the rest, but occasionally you get to see a real corker one individual that stands out from the crowd. I have watched Ermar fight a few times and to be honest he never made me sit up and go Oooh! Good fight. I have seen better and I have seen worse.

Yes he is different in his style of fighting and yes he has had a good degree of success in this format and well done to him I say but that does not mean he is above the rules, no one is, and the British team will be just as successful with or without him, as a matter of fact they where just as successful at the last world championships without him so there you go, but that’s just my opinion and I am sure others will think otherwise and some may well agree.

But that they say is human nature and is no reason to sling mud when you don’t know all the facts of the situation is it?

Best regards

Pat

 

What legitimate reasons where they then? Anyone die, any broken limbs, sever illness or anything like that???

And surely if you are not attending all the squad training sessions how can the Coaches asses whether you are in top shape or not, it only takes a week of flu to set you back six weeks on your training for such an event.

One GB team member (who won a world title this year by the way) had only come out of hospital a week or so before squad training where he was on a drip, on one occasion on the way to training he even had to stop on the motorway and lay on the hard shoulder because he felt so ill yet he still turned up to training. That's what I call a real champion. So who do you think wanted to be on the team and win a world title and who do you think did not?.

Also, what personal and political reasons would you say they had for suspending them and not their students bearing in mind two of Ermar's students who are Filipino remained on the team. I cant see your reasoning here please explain???

 

GB-UK for someone who is supposedly a begginer you seem to be privy to a lot of indformation from one side??? Surely as a begginer you should be busying yourself with learning the art as opposed to trying to dig up dirt and gossip, but anyway?

The communication that follows is written by Diana Fauner a person who has caused trouble and mistrust in more than one FMA organisation since she began training two years ago, but that is another issue. She is also one of the individuals who is unsoundly accusing other individuals of racial discrimination which reads as follows (and I will place my comments where I deem nessisary).

"Funny that. We were discriminated recently, and as we were right the first time around, it boiled down to a cultural discrimination (apparently promoting filipino martial arts at the philippine independence day is "avoidable" by us (the only group representing Filipino martial arts at Filipino events), [My comment: No they are not, there are other groups also doing the same at Filipino events in other areas of the country] and that we should have gone to a British Squad training instead of promoting the art and enjoying our annual cultural festivity with our fellow kababayans. [My comment: Surely if a person valued their place on any British Team they would have committed to it’s training and what better way to honour your kababayans than to commit yourself to winning a world title in a sport that originates from your homeland as opposed to simply demonstrating the art which anyone of your group could have done to the same degree]

Those people who attacked us have now registered the sporting organisation (which aim is to promote eskrima/arnis through its sporting aspect) as a LIMITED COMPANY (turned it into a business and made sure they'd OWN it forever) and have banned Alex and me from attending, competing or having anything to do with the sporting organisation. [My comment: WEKAF the World Organisation is an Incorportated company registered as a none stock holding and none profit making organisation as is WEKAF USA, as is WEKAF GB so what’s the difference, this is to ensure that no one can abuse the name of the organisation and protects it’s members]

Our 'case' is to be reviewed every 6 months, depending on our 'behaviours'. But we think its as good as a lifetime ban coz they never liked us anyway. [My comment: and with communications like this still making racial accusations do you see them having any reason to lift any suspension that is in place?] Alex has just missed to defend his world championship title last July, and for some reason they're punishing us AGAIN for the same issue, and he's going to miss defending his triple GOLD at the European championships next year (as we will be initially banned for 6 months, he will fail to attend two qualifying tournaments for the Europeans). [My comment: After accusing the team Coaches of racism and bringing the sport in to disrepute by those accusations I am surprised they did not impose a life ban, especially when communications like this letter are still being passed around]

They sent us a letter regarding our ban last 29 September, and most of the accusations against us there are mere fabrications and lies. [My comment: Are they, what proof is there that they are lies, the fact remains they did not turn up for squad training as is required by all members of the team, no lie and no fabrication]

We believe we are the first Filipinos to be banned from this Filipino martial art sporting organisation. Sad, huh? [Suspended, not banned and as we have already seen it is not because they are Filipino’s, there where Filipino’s and there will be Filipino’s on the British team as long as they qualify like everyone else. Also they are not the first people to be suspended from WEKAF GB either, back in the mid 90’s a whole group was suspended for not abiding by the rules of the sport and abusive behaviour]

We have given up on fighting for this as it seems our issue isn't that important. (eg. not getting much support and help from anyone) [My comment: You have to wonder why they are getting no support, what do they know that you don’t?]

Another Filipino cultural aspect bites the dust and goes down the drain. Hooray." [My comment: Not at all, WEKAF is still there and still growing and doing it’s bit promoting the FMA to the world via sport]

 

Why do you think they wont reply? Being a begginer in the FMA you seem to have already made your mind up about how organisations such as WEKAF will not respond to your enquiries, why is that?

What exactly did you ask and how did you ask it? Or are you simply jumping to conclusions because you have already made your mind up about them?

Why is not attending official squad training session a poor reason to be removed from the team???

Are they above the rules that everyone else has to abide by? If so why are they above the rules?