Feasibility of a mid to high muay thai roundhouse for a streetfight?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Hazmatac, May 14, 2014.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Meh, he lacks "de-escalation" skills that I have.
  2. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Which is good that you have them... it was just the point that the kick did actually work.
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Haha, sorry, I forgot to put this smiley at the end of my last post > :D
  4. Fujian Animal

    Fujian Animal Banned Banned

    in my opinion, the roundhouse kick is over-rated, a low roundhouse is good for disruption but it takes a little luck and lots of practice to take a leg out, the mid roundhouse will be caught by the opponent 90% of the time in the ring, cage or street so dont try it on a wrestler or you will eat the ground.... so that just leaves the high roundhouse, which can knockout or even kill your opponent, but its highly telegraphed so again it will take a lot of luck and practice to master.... your best kicks for street defense are straight up spartan kicks to the stomach and low snap kicks to the groin, or shuffling sidekicks used to close the distance and put you in range of using your hands, fists, knees and elbows to stun your opponent before going for the takedown.... and screw the locks and submissions, go for the simple ground-n-pound, it will help you in a real street fight, the only reason you need to learn grappling is to prevent him from submitting you, make the ground your area for boxing, elbows and knees
  5. robin101

    robin101 Working the always shift.

    im sorry, but how many MMA bouts do you watch? I see mid to high roundhouse kicks land all the time, and to tell you the truth kick catching in MMA is a rarity. Its not that easy to catch a kick.

    watch this , Overeem throws them all the time and noone cathes them

    looks specifically for the one he took out lesner ( a wrestler ) with
  6. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    You sound like you have little and likely no experience fighting someone who's even decent in MT or Kickboxing... go get in the ring and spar with them a few times... let us know how that comes out with those kick catches... oh, and make sure you post a vid for us.
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Thai kicks aren't easy to catch, and again, the worst case scenario is that your leg gets caught and you clinch or spin out. I think some people here are vastly over estimating what an average Joe is capable of in terms of fighting ability.
  8. GoldShifter

    GoldShifter The MachineGun Roundhouse

    Catching a kick is really hard. To make it easier, you really should hit the kicker as they're throwing the kick with something to make them off balance. That would make it easier, but that's only if you're fast enough, and seriously, who can close kicking range to punching range in the time it takes a MT guy to throw his roundhouse. They're famous for it.

    Also Fujian, overextend that front snap, or miss that sidekick, you're in a worse off position than a roundhouse kicker. And those two kicks that hit in a straight line forward, I like to think of them as "stab" kicks, if you were to equate your leg to a sword. Kicks that "stab" lose their power a bit more, and you have to commit a lot more strength into it, and are also easily jammed by charging right in.

    Roundhouse kicks and the like are what I like to call "slashing" kicks, keeping the analogy of the sword. Those do, yes, take up more time, but are also more probable to hit where you want it to hit b/c of the increased range.

    I went at it with a few MT guys once, cross training in our Kaju class with a MT instructor friend of ours. If Kajukenbo was infamous for making you hard, dear God, MT kicks are no joke, felt every one of those, even the ones I blocked/checked. Trying to catch those would leave your head open b/c you'd have to drop something to make the catch. Bad news bears for you senor, when you drop that hand, and should you miss the catch (which on the contrary to Fujian's statement, DOES happen 90+% of the time), another kick would be coming up, or a punch or whatever. CATCH my drift? Haha, the puns are strong! The would be catcher's defense is not set, and more often than not, really shaky and has space and when another strike hits that weak defense, it'd be reminiscent of "why you hitting yourself huh?"
  9. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    You don't know that the guy is an average joe though. That is my point, when you have no idea of training or experience of the other person, it is a gamble no matter what technique you use.

    True, most won't be trained, but the chance is always there, so the safest option is to use the safest techniques.

    It's not about winning, but about staying un-injured.
  10. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    The ground is the last place you ever want to be when defending yourself even if you are in control.

    Chances are if you get attacked, they're not going to be alone, if you start to ground and pound, you will get grabbed from behind, kicked, etc.
  11. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    How much unsubstantiated internet wisdom are we going to see in one thread?
  12. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    If your kicks are easy to catch your technique is bad. If you're training for combatives or for a combat sport where leg catching is allowed then firstly your kicking technique should take that into account and secondly you should be practising freeing your leg.
    Low kicks are far easier to catch than higher kicks unless the person has poor kicking technique (see above).
    Low kicks are easy to land and easy to drop an opponent with. If not then you're technique is poor.
    While multiple opponents are a risk it is not necessarily the norm, and if there are multiples then there's also a reasonable chance that you won't be alone either. I've seen plenty of ground and pound in real fights.
  13. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Yes, my wording was poor. Kicks aren't "easy" to catch, but can you guarantee, that maybe in tight jeans, with no warm up what ever, that your kick will be fast enough to avoid being caught, by somebody with training and experience?

    My point is that, when it really matters, why take the risk, instead of simple techniques? As you say, low kicks are easier to land, and easier to drop an opponent with, at the minimum it will make them chasing you difficult.

    True with regards to you may not also be alone, but once you are on the ground, all it takes is one good kick from somebody before you get any assistance.

    To me, if you have to resort to combat for self defense, the focus is on removing the threat, with MINIMUM risk. People will have differing ideas of "strategy", but I still maintain belief that one of the safest options is hit and run.

    Kick range is often longer than punching range, so a good low kick and then run, in my opinion is safer than standing and fighting.

    My opinion may be wrong, but if so, please advise on where that is incorrect.
  14. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    First part, you're adding qualifiers. You may as well say elbows are useless because you might be wearing a puffa jacket. Second part, if you need to warm up to kick high, your kicking technique is flawed.
    The speed of my low and high kicks is comparable, again if they're not then you're doing it wrong. It's not about being faster anyway, it's about hitting at the appropriate angle with the appropriate follow through with your hips properly engaged to make the leg difficult to trap.
    I do San Shou, if you're better at catching kicks than I am at kicking and not getting my leg caught, then you're substantially better than me full stop. If the other guy is better than you, you're likely going to lose whatever you do.
    ANY offensive movement you make exposes you. There is no way around that. A lead hand punch may be more compact, but it still exposes you and carries less threat, and people are more likely to be expecting it and more used to facing it.
    However this is true stood up. If you're blindsided, you're blindsided, doesn't matter where you are.
    Unless you're a very good kicker the range for a low kick will only be marginally longer than that for a jab. If you run from somebody without incapacitating them then you need to have somewhere to run to, you need to be sure you aren't going to run into a group of his friends, and you need to be confident you can run faster and further than them.
  15. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    It was a poor kick. Chop down, not cut up. You're unlikely to get knee spiked in the street.

    A solid, unpadded, Thai kick to the upper area of the leg would decimate it in one or two strikes against an unconditioned opponent. Don't underestimate just how dangerous this kick can be.
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Man, I spar with great guys, and they can't catch my kicks, even though the option is there. If the guy I'm fighting (randomly in the street apparently) is good enough to catch my leg, I'm good enough to counter it, and if I'm not, I'm better on the ground, and if I'm not, I'm better wrestling etc etc.

    If someone is good enough to catch my leg and do something with it then what chance would I have boxing?
  17. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    To say that nobody can EVER catch a kick, it is impossible to catch one or keep hold of a leg by luck is wrong, all it takes is for it to go wrong once. Why take the chance?

    What makes kicking high a better strategy than kicking low?

    So the general suggestion here then is instead of trying to evade, it's better to stand and fight an unknown opponent who may or may not be armed?

    And fight in the exact same way as you would in the ring, with no regards to the risk you expose yourself too if there's a better option?
  18. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    No, The fact the discussion is about a street adds the qualifiers than you're unlikely to be in nice, unrestrictive clothing.

    Flawed kicking technique does not prevent high kicks before a warm up, poor flexibility does.
  19. robin101

    robin101 Working the always shift.

    I dont think anyone is saying that kicking high is a better strategy. We are just pointing out that kicks are not easy to catch, leet Str33t warriors cannot magically grab your leg once it goes past the waist, and that high kicking is possible in a fight. I have seen that with my own eyes a couple of times.

    Bearing all this in mind though, i would not high kick in a fight, as I have not trained them enough, I am better with my hands and they are easier to use.
    I like to stick to whats easy. I can punch quite well and have some practice using my knees so I will use those if the situation arises.

    Best way of looking at it was, I think when a guy said
    "yea thats completely possible with practice, but why would I want to do that. I could train enough to use high kicks in a fight, buts its easier and quicker to use my hands to hit the head in most cases. I could also train myself to walk into town on my hands or drive my car with my feet. But why do that? "
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I'm not saying do or don't kick high, I'm saying its just as valid an option as any other technique in your arsenal.

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