FAQ - What is a McDojo and How Do I Spot One?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by aikiwolfie, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    Rented space in a high school gym or a church basement is fine for a nonprofit club, but a professional who wants to make a name and a living is eventually going to need his own space where he is in control of the setting and the schedule (not that I mean to belittle nonprofit clubs--that's where I do most of my training). Yes, students have to pay more for this. But what they get in return is a more flexible schedule (since the instructor no longer has to compromise with the owner of the space) and better instruction (since more control over the space and equipment gives the instructor more freedom to teach the way he wants to).

    That's not to say there's no such thing as overcharging. I can train taekwondo, karate, or jujutsu under legit masters here in Milwaukee for around $100 a month. These are all people who own their own places. Then there are "masters" whose credentials come from organizations I've never heard of and can't find on Google who charge $140 a month. To me, the latter is overcharging.

    What's more, beyond a certain point, it seems that the more accredited an instructor is, the less he charges. An accredited instructor will charge $80 where a hack charges $60, but a hack will charge $140 where the real deal only charges $100
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
  2. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.


    Agreed, Matt.
     
  3. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I shared a room with my 3 brothers. People have a tendency to confuse need with want.

    Yes it may be desirable to have your own building etc. But if you can't handle the cost of providing a home for your family and running your own bricks and mortar dojo/gym/training hall then there are other options than just hiking up the prices or watering things down.

    As I said above. People tend to confuse want with need. You don't need your own premises to run a professional for profit club and make a name for yourself. And I'd argue there's little gain to the business in having a more flexible schedule if in the end your costs run out of control and you then have to find more and more ways of squeezing even more money out of your students.

    That to my mind is just not a viable business. Sooner or later you reach saturation point where you've attracted all the students in your area who are interested in what you have to offer and can afford what you have to offer. In business you need to deal with costs in ways other than just tagging on another cost to the consumer. Sometimes that means the business owner needs to make a sacrifice or compromise. That's the reality of business.

    Cutting costs may mean you have to compromise on your premises. That could be giving up some floor time to someone else. Which means you sacrifice some flexibility in your teaching schedule. But if you're hiring your hall to a say a dance teacher. You could use that income to subsidise the martial arts business. If your building has a yard area you could sell parking space if there's a demand.
     
  4. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    We're not going there are we? "it may have been a cardboard box but it was our cardboard box and we loved our little home"

    Want? Need? It's about whether you can afford it
     
  5. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    Well.... I think "need" is based on individual definition. Are you saying that we should all live four to a single room because to have more than that is somehow bad? Technically you dont "NEED" a car. You can walk or ride a bike. You can ride a horse or a mule. You can rely on public transportation. But I bet you own a car. You dont NEED more than a single pair of shoes and change of clothes but I bet you have more. You dont need a house with more than a single room. You dont even "NEED" an outhouse so the need vs want argument varies depending on personal definition. Technically you COULD even grow your own food and live a vegetarian lifestyle but I'd rather get poked in the eye with a tank.


    Or you open another facility somewhere else. Multiple locations mean reaching multiple audiences and increase the flow of potential revenue exponentially. Thats why there isn't just one McDonalds, or planet fitness, or Chevy dealership. THATS the reality of business. Grow or die. I've watched business' here grow in order to do that very thing - reach more consumers. It's why my teachers have three schools, why TKD its self has more than a single school but has schools in every community - sometimes several if the community is large enough.

    See, you cant do ANY of the stuff you suggest there unless you have your OWN building which you seem to feel is simply a recipe for disaster. By attaining your own space you always have options. You have the potential for growth. Its the difference between the small business mentality and the corporate mentality. Niether is right or wrong and both are necessary in any industry.
     
  6. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    We don't even need the internet, the computer being used for this forum, or this forum :hat:

    I don't need you BM

    But I WANT you :evil:







    ....to spar :cool:
     
  7. PaIntR

    PaIntR New Member

    Good read. I guess that makes spotting a McDojo easier for beginners!
     
  8. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    No. The point you're deliberately avoiding is there are other ways to deal with costs other than simply passing them all on to the student. Which is what I've said all along.
     
  9. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    They're the ones receiving the benefit. Training from an I structors point of view should be self funding. Each instructor knows how many members at £x
    pays the bills. Why shouldn't the student/customer pay?
     
  10. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    Well then why not just train for free and be done with it? Why pass ANY cost on to the student at all. Have them pay you in chickens and rice.


    EDIT** Im not DELIBERATELY avoiding anything. If I wanted to avoid things I'd start with this thread et al. Ok, you dont want to pass operating cost on to your students who are more than willing to pay. That does one thing: it DEVALUES what you teach. Ever learn how to get a quote for sevices? Get three quotes from three experts then throw out the highest and lowest. The hights because he's clearly over priced and the lowest because he clearly isnt good enough to charge a competitive price.

    ok, so now we've devalued your product. Its the "cheap" school - which automatically makes people say "why is it so much cheaper" and raise an eyebrow. You have no set structure from which we teach that is devoted to your product but instead you teach from whatever backroom you can get for a few bucks. Let me ask you, do you really think you'll have ANY students to worry about? I'd never join. To me you just created the ultimate fly by night organization.

    Like I keep saying, it all boils down to the type of organization you want to run. If you want to be a big school system then your model doesnt work. If you dont then its not an issue is it?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  11. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Good idea :D
     
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I have. Under 3 out of 7 instructors






    besides, all a stident has to do for lessons is

    wax on wax off

    paint the fence

    paint the house

    sand the floor




    but always

    don't forget to breathe
     
  13. Anazoth

    Anazoth Valued Member

    You can probably spot one on a mcDonalds menu :eek:
     
  14. Iam

    Iam Valued Member

    Wait ... what's a McDonalds? :confused:
     
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Next to a Burger King
     
  16. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    A high price is not the biggest problem, IMNSHO.

    If the prices are all up front, a person can choose a less expensive school.

    But when the goal is to get them to sign a contract, and then once they
    are stuck, to tack on all sorts of fees for equipment, tests, seminars,
    tournaments, special enhanced classes, etc. - that is corrupt.

    Oh, now that you've signed a 9 month contract, you'll need to take
    the sparring seminar if you want to be allowed to spar - which you
    really should do if you want to progress. You'll need sparring equipment,
    and we only allow equipment purchased here to go out onto the mats
    so that we can keep control of quality, for safety reasons. And that
    also makes you eligible for our Blackbelt club, which leads to accelerated
    learning & progress. And to see if you are really learning, you should enter
    some tournaments. We have one coming up. It's normally $90, but if you
    join the Blackbelt Club, it's only $75.

    I think I'd like to quit.

    Okay, but you still owe $900 for the rest of the lessons.

    What lessons?

    The ones you will be paying for but not attending.

    Contracts are a way to get money without delivering product.
    I can see offering a discount if a student pays (refundable) for
    several months in advance (maybe with a $25 service fee for the refund,
    at the most).

    If I were in a contract, I'd find a way to get kicked out, and then sue them
    for breach of contract. I might lose, but so would they!
     
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    McDojo-get ranks fast?
     
  18. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    haha WJJF anyone ?
     
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    LOL "Rainbow of Colors" :):confused:
     
  20. LeaFirebender

    LeaFirebender Ice Bear has ninja stars

    Thank you soooo much man :D I kept hearing "mcdojo" and wondered what exactly that entitled. Now I know! :hat:

    One thing I DO disagree with you on is the belt thing. In most cases, I agree with you: too many belts is probably a bad sign. But at our studio, its different. When we switched over to rotating curriculum (which is amazing, btw :kick: ) people were getting to black belt faster than before. To overcome this problem, our master added more belts, but when he did he lowered the price of each test to nearly if not less than 1/2 the orginal price. This I think proves that he didn't add more belts to make more money but rather to make black belt a longer goal (it now takes a minimum of 3 1/2 years but for most people it takes a lot longer than that :cool: )
     

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