FAQ - What is a McDojo and How Do I Spot One?

Caveat emptor

 

It didn't used to be like that in Martial Arts, from what I've seen.

 

I can state, when I started in the early 60's, it wasn't

 

Around 1979 I had someone offer to teach me Kung Fu (dunno which style) for free.
Back in those days, I was told I should expect to be sore and bruised a lot
(It was going to be at an accelerated pace).
I wasn't ready for the level of commitment he wanted, but was mature
enough to know I wasn't ready for it.
Most of the people I knew who were doing Martial Arts weren't spending a lot -
I think most of their teachers were doing it as a sideline.
I don't know if there were others which were making a good living only from
teaching Martial Arts, but I got the impression there weren't many getting rich at it.

I suppose it was one of those things you did for the love of it, like teaching Sailing or Lacrosse.

 

this is all well and fine. my problem is just the fact that some places want a potential student to even sign one. i think it's a bit insulting. not only for adults but for kids. as an adult, what i'm supposed to keep my gym membership if i've lost my job? or something has happened to my family like a medical emergency? or for kids....hey, we all know kids are finicky. i have to keep paying if my kid decides that he/she doesn't like judo anymore. what if my kid wants to play the tuba?

i'm lucky in that i live in a city with lots of choices. i can see how it would be hard to not get sucked into a contract outside of chicago, ny, l.a., etc.

 

Even some highly respected ( run by people you may know personally or follow their public career ) schools want 6 months contracts. I think though, they might be willing to compromise here or there if you really know what you want.

 

As I said. Read the terms and conditions. If you don't like what you see don't sign. It's their loss. As for signing contracts. Adults do it all the time. You get a mortgage? You sign on the dotted line. You get a car with finance? You sign on the dotted line. You buy a new PC? You agree to Microsoft's EULA just by booting up the PC.

I have no issue with the concept of a contract. Even though I'd never sign one just to study martial arts.

 

i think we agree with each other wolfie! generally speaking.

but i don't equate a gym membership with a mortgage loan. and i don't use microsoft, giovanni's one of those linux freeloaders!

my point is that as adults, we should not sign contracts for gym memberships. if that means that, like you said, the gym loses my money, so be it.

 

I use Linux too. And even Linux has a licence agreement you must abide by.

 

but that doesn't mean that if i agree to use a windows or ubuntu machine, that i will be penalized if i stop using them within a specified period of time. your analogy is not good. let's just leave the analogies at the gym membership level because mortgage loans and software eula's just don't work.

 

No but if you breach the terms and conditions you will. And that's the important part. It's all about paying attention to what the terms and conditions of the contract actually mean in practice. Which is why you should never rush into signing a contract. Read the whole thing. Read it twice. Make sure you read the small print. Make sure you understand any legalbabble.

 

There is a lot of negative talk about contracts but the other side of the coin is that by locking in people to a contract the gym can afford good quality equipment, equipment that the part time school in the church hall simply cannot provide.

I agree McDojo's should be avoided like the plague but not all schools that sell membership via a contract are unscrupulous con men, a lot are passionate teachers that simply have huge bills to cover the dojo/dojang expenses and give themselves a decent salary...and while it wasnt like this 30 years ago...I cant think of any full time martial arts centres that operated then either...its just the changing economy.

Having said that, I think it is a rare individual that runs a martial arts school as his permanent full time job and doesn't have it become...well.... his job!

Once it becomes your livelihood and not your passion, I think something deep inside fundamentally changes your approach to the art, and not necessarily for the better.

 

how does signing people up on contracts cover their huge bills? how is it any different than simply having people pay month by month? it's not.

i am a principle in a consulting firm. we bill by the hour. at any time, our customers can cancel a project and simply pay us what's owed. to say that somehow martial arts is different is absolutely untrue. we provide a service. people pay us for it. as part of providing the service, we don't force people to stay with us for an amount or to even spend a minimum. all we have them sign is a paper saying that they'll pay us for hours billed. that's it.

i have a wife and kids. and a house, and bills. why is the dojo operator any different from me? what makes the dojo operator so special that he/she needs to get people to sign a contract?

it's lazy and it's bad business.

 

A business in the fitness industry is very different to a consulting firm. Why do you think that the vast majority of commercial gyms now run on contracts? It's because it is really the only way to successfully operate a commercial gym. You are relying on a very small number of customers to provide all of your income.

Most gym operators aren't racking in millions, contracts don't automatically equal abnormally high incomes for the owners.

I've seen figures that claim that only approximately 1-2% of people that start martial art continue on to become a 1st degree. So that's 98-99% of people that walk into your dojo will only train (and pay you) for very short length of time.

Figures for the fitness industry in general show people follow any new training regime for about 12 weeks before dropping out.

You try covering the rent and equipment costs and your own salary when 98% of your customers stop paying within 3 months of starting.

Any gym operator also knows that you will only attract people from within about a 5km radius of your location, people have to be prepared to continually visit the gym, it MUST be convenient for them, again a completely different situation from a consulting firm.

I don't run a school ATM, i actually train in a church hall currently, I'm not saying contracts are the best situation but having managed a fitness centre, you simply need a more steady revenue stream for a full time location than month to month pay as you go provides.

 

Suprising how many people stick around because of the contracts. The lull in the summer disappears and the banks love to see direct debits dropping in the account each month. A happy bank makes for a happy gym

 

i know there's a lot of good people out there that just want to feed their family and provide a service. i don't want to be a downer to dojo operators because i know that the martial arts have provided a great service in my life.

but i still have some problems with what's being said...

so what you're all basically saying is, force people to pay you, even though they don't want to come anymore. to me, that's just wrong.

how is it that all these other dojos seem to run just fine without contracts? i've gone to four different dojos with no contracts and one with. all the dojos are still operating.

maybe something to think about is incentivizing. my current dojo has a flat monthly rate, no contract. if i pay 5 months, i get a sixth.

fyi...

http://valkobjj.com/rates/

 

I understand what you are saying Giovani and while I don't like contracts and agree you should be able to stop paying if you change your mind, it's just simple economics that even if students decide to have December off because it's the end of the year etc, your rent, heating, lighting, cleaning, salary all still have to be paid regardless.

I don't like it but understand why it's needed, but again, I've opted to train in a club that operates out of a church hall now, after being in a contract school for the last 8 or so years...I pay less and only pay for classes I attend which is great, but damn I do miss the facilities the full time school had.

 

Here's how to spot a McDojo;

 

There really aren't that many for profit dojos that succeed over a long period of time without contracts. As far as I can tell from my martial arts search, for instance, there are only two or three in the entire Milwaukee area, and one of those is an underqualified instructor who knows that his lack of a contract is his only advantage over much stronger competition. The contract, while not something that should be undertaken recklessly, should not automatically trigger the 'McDojo alarm".

In fact, the contract helps weed out a lot of undesirables. The casual metrosexual who wants an easy fitness program and not a martial art won't sign a contract. The MMA wanna-be who comes in talking like an expert, ignorantly decides he's figured it all out in a month, and then leaves, considering the dojo just another notch in his championship belt won't sign a contract. The dreamer who just wants to pretend he's in a Bruce Lee movie won't sign a contract.

 

How to tell if your school's a McDojo...

1) they have a drive-thru

2) they have a "fast-trak" course which takes you from white belt to black belt in just 6 minutes a day!

3) you can customize your training package or buy pre-made ones using their handy-dandy numeric refence system. "Yes, I'll take a number 3 with a side order of extra punching please?"

4) the dojo office has a cash register and front counter where you place and pay for your order.

5) the teacher lets you call him "Bob" during class and offers all his students a discount for his landscaping and lawncare sidebusiness.