FAQ - Can I Teach Myself Martial Arts?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by aikiwolfie, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    My point exactly.

    Hitting and throwing objects are just as innate. In fact, if you look at toddlers you could argue that they are more innate.

    Pointed sticks are more universal than folk wrestling, so I'm not sure wrestling could be called more innate than striking. If we're trying to discern innate tendencies, then I would say grappling comes out as a response to being overwhelmed by strikes, or in acts of domination, such as rape.
  2. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Wrestling needs coaching.
    most people can't really get to a reasonable standard without a shed load of mat time and discipline not to beast each other with strength.

    trust me, i've tried.
  3. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    So both striking and grappling* are innate natural responses but both require refining to become effective. The best way to refine your techniques and increase your ability is through learning from an experienced coach. It may be possible to develop some skill without an instructor but it will take longer and will never get you to the same level you could potentially be through instructor based learning. Books, DVDs etc can help you learn but cannot replace an instructor. That is my understanding from readng this thread and other related threads and my personal experiences.

    Is that a conclusion other people can agree on?

    *Edit - and tool/weapon use
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  4. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Build upon what came before

    We stand upon the shoulders of giants
  5. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    I am by no means an authority on this, but I do believe that a person can learn a reasonable level of nearly any MA on their own. I concede that said person will most likely be no where as competent as an individual with far less training with a qualified instructor.

    When the first monkey slapped another the first primitive art was born. He showed another how making a fist made it better and so on... to the levels we are at now.
  6. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Hence my question about BJJ.

    You're arguing against something I never argued for in the first place. ;)
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You said (about wrestling):
    "...the fact of the matter is. This is how people fight by default. It's what we do as children before anybody shows us how to fight and it's what we do as adults who've never been shown how to fight. We push and pull, trip, kick and pin."

    You were making the argument that wrestling is more innate than any other fighting technique. Or at least that was the impression I got from your posts.

    I don't see the evidence for that assertion.
  8. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    You're confusing the sport with what children and adults naturally do. Intentionally I suspect.
  9. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    With all due respect. I am not real big on ground skill. I am willing to bet most of what I would do on the ground would be close to what a child does. Minus what I saw on t.v and the WWF. With more powerror of course.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    No, I just don't see the evidence that humans are naturally more inclined to wrestle than strike or throw things, or hit with objects for that matter.

    I'm not confusing sport wrestling with the kind of untrained grappling you're describing. I think, other than social and sexual dominance of the kind I already mentioned, people are more likely to strike and use missiles because it is much more likely to have a damaging effect, with the notable exception of strangulation.

    What is your evidence?

    Also, why do you think I would intentionally pretend to misunderstand you?
  11. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    I once did a double arm bar thing against the bjj coach during a tiff over size vs skill. I have never seen anything like it before. He was stuck. I out weigh him by 30 lbs. I did this only knowing how to shrimp and hip up.
  12. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    My daughter was a striker from birth she was always kicking. Even at 2 yrs of age she had a good untrained round house. One of my sons came out of the womb doing the rnc. My other kid likes to hit with sticks
  13. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    With absolutely zero scientific knowledge or evidence to back it up, I think its very contextual. I'd say wrestling is more innate because we're far more likely to engage in social violence and wrestling has a better place in that both with having less obvious risks than kicking someone in the head, and because the act of dominating someone with grappling is very overtly a power game and works as a social hierarchy domination thingy.

    If we're talking actual combat to cause serious damage and/or kill, then yeah striking is probably just as innate.
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    This comes back to my point about social conditioning of violence.

    We tend to frown on beating someone bloody over an argument. I've been to some countries where it's not such a taboo.

    Again, look at toddlers. If we're talking innate, we have to look at pre-socialised (if there is such a thing, perhaps we could call it proto-socialised) behaviour.
  15. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    Most (all?) primates seem to wrestle in some form, whether as a form of social play, or to establish and challenge hierarchies. Striking seems a lot rarer. In my opinion striking seems to be more of a learned behavior, whereas wrestling seems more innate.
  16. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Playing fighting is prevalent across pretty much the entire mammalian world. Which includes humans. This is how we begin to learn how to fight and dominate others. It's how we test our strength and determine a pecking order.
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Long before kids can walk, let alone grapple, they kick, slap and throw toys.

    When I was at primary school, the only kids who deliberately tried to grapple were the ones who did judo. Even then it was only as a planned pre-emptive attack. Once they actually got into a scrap it was all slapping and kicking.

    Throwing objects has the highest success for the least danger. That's what I've seen kids do most.

    I'm not saying grappling isn't innate, I'm just saying it is no more innate than any other kind of attack.

    I completely agree that play-fighting is almost exclusively wrestling. I think that is because it has the least chance of causing accidental injury. But kids have to learn that, as they learn that others feel pain. I'd wager that other primates learn that too, probably many mammals. Dogs and cats appear to go through the same process.
  18. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Yeah they teach themselves Karate in the womb. You're conflating how the brain learns to control the extremities of the body with fighting.
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Please explain the distinction.
  20. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    I think the point that aikiwolfie is making is that while we might describe a baby or young child as "kicking" or "punching", what they are really doing is flailing their limbs. In contrast, grabbing is instinctive behaviour, in fact it is a primitive reflex in babies (the palmar grasp reflex).

Share This Page