Wow, the conversations you miss out on when you've been out of the loop a couple of days. Soggycat, they thought you and I were funny but I think this beats our conversation! For anyone else reading the thread - yep, it's always the ones from Sydney, I think it's in the water. Put it this way. It's fair enough to practice what you want but nothing justifies the use of violence. I don't believe mad-about-bagua's statements that the Chinese government acts predominantly out of benign concern for the health of the people. Falun Gong is a popular movement with a figurehead who is not responsible to any political party, and the practice promotes independent thinking and questioning of authority - not the thing to promote in a socialist state balancing on a knife-edge of democracy. Hey - there's a reason the Falun Gong people sit down and start practicing in Tiananmen Square, and it's not to meditate. I'm not justifying the beatings and inprisonment but the people are arrested for open criticism of the socialist government - THE MEANS AND JUSTIFICATION OF THE PROTEST, AND THE ARREST ARE ARBITRARY (sorry to yell). And there are nutters everywhere people. Every movement has their bad seeds who will be crazy whether or not they meditate. Some people are just wired like that.
Nooooo your'll start him up again True, this blows SC and even Taigips posts out of the water.Water filters from now on
Rhyme and Reason For your info, I live on bottled water . I think the simplest way I can put it is that I wasn’t justifying violence. I was trying to explain why there’s violence. Whether you agree with the reasons and logic for that violence is a separate matter and is always debatable. Cause and Effect. Remove the cause ( demonstrations) and the effect(violence) dissapears. The power of choice is in a Falun's hands. How’s that for Zen detachment ? Even in Australia, all demonstrations or public protest have to be approved by the police. If not, it is an unlawful assembly and you can expect to be CLUBBED on the head by Riot Police because the law was broken. Whether you agree with the legality is a separate matter. Whether it is right or wrong is a separate matter. There's no fairness in life, only reality. Falun was outlawed in 1999. Technically that means if they demonstrate or promote it publicly , they are in breach of the law, and subject to swift retribution. Ask your parents how the Communist party was treated in Australia or USA in the 1950’s . McCarthism comes to mind. Is it any different ? It is a countrie's sovereign right to keep law and order the way it sees fit. Whether you or I agree with it’s methods is immaterial. They don’t tell you how to run your country, so why should you tell them how to run theirs? Personally, as sad as it is to see old people get clubbed, one must remember that Falun followers were given a choice. Demonstrate and you will be beaten. Promote it and you will be beaten. Stay at home and meditate on your own , and you will be left alone. I don’t call that persecution when a choice is available. It’s not like the Spanish Inquisition eh, no one is asked to recant. Just don’t demonstrate or promote it.
If someone brandishes a knife in a threating manner at me , and I tell him to put it down but he doesn't....don't I have good reason to use the " Monkey steals the peach move" on him ? ( ie. rip out his tescticles ) If someone puts a no escape choke hold on me.....don't I have good reason to stick my fingers in his eyes if saying please stop doesn't help? If a govt is faced with a cult encouraging people not to seek Western medical attention when they are ill, to cut open their bellies in search of the Falun Immortality Elixir Wheel/Pill, to set themselves on fire, going postal........don't they have a good reason to resort to harsh measures when soft talk has already failed ? Kat , I agree that the persecution is not entirely out of concern for their health, a lot has to do with crushing political dissent too. Like Tiananmen. But then if Falun have political views they they should be open about it and not hide behind the facade of an innoncent movement promoting "Meditation, Health , Peace and Forebearance " BTW, I think Tiananmen was very cruel, excessive force. But Falun people don't seem to learn from history.
"They don’t tell you how to run your country, so why should you tell them how to run theirs?" Human rights folks. I'd expect anyone to stand up to a violation of human rights, anywhere in the world. I've been overseas myself and seen the effects of state madness, and I know a lot of people who devote their lives to promoting human freedom. We live in a comfortable, suburban, western environment - we don't know anything about struggle compared to many people in the world. We have a duty to step up for the people who can't (batman). "But then if Falun have political views they they should be open about it and not hide behind the facade of an innoncent movement promoting "Meditation, Health , Peace and Forebearance "" Excellent, excellent point. Qigong is for health and wellbeing. It should not be a political tool and no matter how good it makes you feel, it isn't worth destroying yourself or your family for (whether or not it's via a repressive police system or if you do it yourself).
nzric, Wow I cant believe it..we finally have a meeting of minds on at least one point. I admire what Batman , helping those who cant help themselves. ....really no sarcasm here at all. But there are limits too. Some Westerners " help" in the most un-useful ways. Pardon me if I dont feel sorry when I see a Western man get bashed up by the Chinese police when he joins the Falun in their illegal demonstrations. He is an outsider, no one forced him to participate, he had a choice...and so he has to live with the consequences of his actions Maybe he should stick to building schools and hospitals and sponsoring orphans in impoverished countries. About Human Rights, I dont know if you will agree with me, but it is not an absolute. Eg. Westerners think the way women are treated in some ultra conservative Islamic nations is a gross violation of HR Eg. female circumcision, polygamy, no voting or driving rights etc. But some of these countries think Autralia's relatively lax laws about firearms and drug abuse is a gross violation of Human Rights . Eg. innocent people getting shot, teeange overdose death.... it's all relative isn't it? Westerners think eating dogs in Korea and parts of China is absolutely vile. But a cow is Holy to a Hindu, and so they think Western beef consumption is disgusting. IMHO helping others especially in other countries is a noble thing but beyond a certain boundary it can be misunderstood as condesencion or interference. Still, I think you might look fetching in you Batman tights Or is that not debatable?
Any state will take it as interference if you disagree publicly with their policies, and whatever country you are in, if you're too vocal you will get hounded down and arrested. I agree some people are "asking for it" but that's the point - to demonstrate the futility of government policy through calculated non-violence (exit batman, cue gandhi). I don't care who the government is and if you're 'interfering' or not - human rights is human rights (yeah, and ALL countries violate human rights in some way) and I'll tip my hat to anyone who has the b...ls to make a stand. I'm just saying from my point of view, Falun Gong has been blown out of proportion because it is now political. Yes it may be very effective but I don't see any reason why it should replace a good qigong routine. But I don't believe for a moment the blown-up claims that are forwarded by the state media. That is too much like the claims that rock&roll makes you mad, that weed makes you jump off buildings, that socialism makes you, well, a commie, and that dungeons&dragons makes you an axe murderer. Back to the topic - qigong is supposed to take time, it is gradual because it takes time for your body to grow and change to accept the new energy levels. There shouldn't be any fast-track/intensive process because that goes against the principles of the exercises. It should be separate from politics too - no breathing routine is worth dying for, there are a lot of other ways to make a political statement.
I told my master I had seen people practicing falun gong in the park in Liverpool and he hit the roof! VERY BAD! STAY AWAY! DONT DO IT! MANY DIE! I trust him conpletely so will definately go nowhere near it. according to rumour the modern creator used it as a type of brainwashing (?) tecnique and many did die but that might just be the chinese government trying to control it by spreading rumour. I believe bad things will happen
iamno, Good to hear form someone like you. But a friendly warning, please be careful about trying to warn people about the dangers of Falun Gong. There are many people here ( in MAP) whom seem to think that they know everything there’s to know about the Falun, and because they have only heard about how the Falun are being persecuted/prosecuted by the Chinese Government but not why their type of Qigong is dangerous, they will shoot you down and try to make it sound like you are the “mad” one with the extreme views. Reminds you of the biblical saying “ Don’t cast pearls before swine, lest they turn and trample on you”
In the 15 Century 99% of the people thought the world was flat. If you tried to say otherwise, you’ll be deemed the extreme one and have your credibility , sanity and intellect questioned. History and human nature doesn’t change much eh? Human nature prefers the familiar to the unknown.
Insanity : Falun Gong Mother Chokes Daughter to Death http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200205/13/eng20020513_95542.shtml
There be Dragons Just Widening the viewpoint here. "Apparently" ,systems whose principal aim is to raise yourself into a "higher state of conciousness" (pardon the use of this worn out phrase)have always been portrayed as fraught with danger as the student progresses. This is one of the main reasons (so they say) that certain practices are best performed under supervision wth proper guidance. Im no Falun expert but i read somewhere that it was originally taught one to one,master to student fashion...hush hush stylee. I have also heard it`s pretty effective in doing whatever it`s supposed to do. I tend to agree with MAB in so far as,if it works, it probably is getting people to choppy mental waters quickly.Providing you believe in Have been to China and seen the Demonstrations and attrocities documented. - Considered wearing a FalunGong T-Shirt with "Free Tibet" on the back so i could miss my flight and stay longer...You just need to put the T-Shirt on when you want to leave ;-) Also read somewhere that the ROC only started banging heads when they discovered there were more Falun members than communist party members.When i am feeling cynical i like to believe this as well. I could see how both arguments complement each other...but then again i also have my suspicions about the Chinese having a moon base on the Dark side of the Moon. :Alien:
Why is it that whenever I randomly visit threads like these, I am always left with images this graphic?
You obviously have never heard of the tape "Nude tai chi" (check out the reviews in Amazon). Cheerleading qigong ladies are the least of your worries!
ah... anyways i'll put my experience with yoga n falun gong... n i'll talk about insanity as i earlier said... kundalini yoga n falun gong talks about ppl becoming insane when they practice... well it's partial true... i hav been practicing both for quite some time...n seriously i havn't gone insane yet... to some folks they both r fast chi generating techniques... but they forget about cleaning their mind with preconcived notions... as in falun gong author talks about good xin-yin which is qiute similar to being pure from heart... the author talks about opening up the knowledge vessel(a sort of third eye), the author talks about magic n else... and he also talks about cleaning or preparing urself for falun gong... but the funny thing is ppl only remember magic n wat not... n seriously its more than hokey pokey crap... they even forget wat the author is giving to u... even author himself talks about insanity... same goes for kundalini yoga. when ur concious goes higher you cannot differentiate there is no good n bad, u cannot act bad because of the nature of higher energies... ppl think of u as insane as ur point of view hav changed, the way things u see is changed, it more of holistic in nature... if u don't believe me u should read some books by jose silva on his methods of alpha mind... where u put ur mind in aplha n theta stages...even he emphasis that... -TkdWarrior-
oh i forgot to put my experience with both... anyways 1st thing is i havn't gone insane... and moreover i have been doing meditation n yoga from last 10 yrs so i think i could handle both quite well... and i only did when i wanted to... just like feeling coming from inside. i stick with them for week n forget about it... then came back to them in yr or so... like when i first hav book on falun i couldn't make up with wat he was saying... n yr later i could see things differently u always hav ur rationale mind to fall back on to... so don't worry... i didn't dynamic meditation n yoga for kundalini ... not the usual exercises... -TkdWarrior-
Catholic Priest concocts anti-evil potion kills 62... http://www.religionnewsblog.com/html/5288-.html http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_844239.html Catholic Priest dresses up boy like Jesus...(Possibly offensive please dont click if you dont want to read) http://www.religionnewsblog.com/htm...ing_boy_after_dressing_him_up_like_Jesus.html I found these after a 1 minute search on google. The point of this is that following the reasoning some people are using in refering to Falun Gong then these links seem to indicate that it is the Catholic Churches fault that a priest decides to invent an anti-evil pill (which subsequently kills his parish) and so on... Which to me anyway is a bit of a ludicrous jump in logic. The man died of a heart attack and practiced Falun Gong therefore Falun Gong must cause heart attacks, a boy survived his house being burned down and practiced Falun Gong therefore Falun Gong must cause people to be able to escape from fires, see any problem here? By the way Im not trying to add further fuel to the fire (no pun intended) Im just trying to point out that every religion or social movement or relaxation therapy or whatever has its share of odd people. Looking at the sensational stories in the news (or worse on the internet) really tells you nothing... Hmmm... So Falun Gong is a cult what similarities does it share with any of the above examples? Oh and plenty of Buddhists set themselves on fire in Vietnam in political protests so is Vietnamese Buddhism also a cult? I mean apparently its members sacrifice themselves and Im sure if you look you'll probably find incidents where Vietnamese Buddhists have killed people and other suuch odd things... (Disclaimer: Not trying to offend anyone with the links by the by.)
Thank you CKava, finally a voice of reason. BTW - Soccer is evil too because people fight each other when they watch soccer matches. And I heard one guy who robbed a grocery store actually said once that he thought David Beckham was a good guy.
