Hi Rebel Wado, Not sure about lying on the back, I'll try it tomorrow and let you know. I know that one of the broadsword forms we do you can perform some of the moves with fa-jing. I sold my broadsword to my training partner, he's much bigger than me and can Fa-jing with it, I couldn't. I thing the movement depends on the form though. My teacher say's he has fa-jinged (if that’s a word) while falling over You can fa-jing with a long pole a short stick a sword, a knife and I don't know what else. The long pole is often used to teach the concepts of fa-jing. I have used all of the above except the long pole, due to an old back injury. hope this helps regards
Yes the way I see it, the power is generated by the waist. I was training with a friend earlier and the biggest change for him (kick boxer-tai fighter-kungfu-systema-ninjitsu very busy man) was to isolate the movement of the waist and not use his rely on the hip when striking. He found that he could get much more Tork in the movement if he could concentrate on moving his waist instead of his hips. The first thing was to realise they were 2 different things.
Thanks for the replies whoflungdat. The idea of power from the waist could be the defining factor in separating External from Internal power. In Japan there were/are many that believe the power comes from the hara, or tan-tien in Chinese I think. The principle is the principle of independent motion where as the waist can move independently from the hips. You can correct me where I might be wrong or misunderstanding this, of course, I'm kind of new at it all. Since I'm coming from a hard style training mostly into the internal arts... I'm of the knowledge that the waist is only one part of an overall structure for generating power. I still don't see how a push and a strike cannot happen together. I believe in what is called compounded attacks/strikes. A strike can turn into a push or another strike/attack, etc. Something like a push can be just one part of a compounded attack that ends with a strike or encompasses a strike within it. You say that fajin can only be a strike and cannot be a push, I'm of the opinion that it can be part of a push as well as a strike. We can disagree, that's not the end of the world, but I thinking we might be more in agreement than at first thought. I have a video as an example, the question is, do any of the movements contain fajin? Certainly there is pushing, but it isn't just pushing IMHO, but pushing with the element of striking in it. If so, then maybe fajin cannot be expressed strictly as pushing, but, on the other hand, I would say that within pushing can be expressed fajin perhaps. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UTxCWd2lJE&feature=related"]YouTube - Tai Chi Wrestling[/ame]
Yes exactly Ok this is down to my inability to put fa-jing into words (as I said it took me 2 years to understand it and another year before I realised I wasn't doing it.) The waist moves very fast you (in my view) you can't fa-jing slowly as it becomes an automated process which happens on nearly every strike. If the movement I am trying to perform is new to me then sometimes my body has to relearn, before it can apply fajing, this is mainly due to my lack of experience I think. The movement is always initiated by movement of the waist, which results in violent response of the body. If you think of a monkey drum the centre or handle rotates, but it's movement is small, however the strings or your arms in effect fly out at great speed and then fly back. The penetration of the strike is never really more than about three inches, this is why I don't really see that there are pushes involved with fa-jing. I maybe wrong I will ask my teacher. For the reasons I have stated above no, There is no waist shake, no violent movement, no connection between the waist and the attacking limb, many of the arm movements are linear not circular, there are no spiralling movements. I don't believe these guys would no fa-jing if it hit them. They don’t even maintain their centre when attacking.(basic stuff) I reckon most of the hard trainers on MAP, no matter what the style could knock the stuffing out of them. sorry, but its stuff like this that makes Taiji fuzzy at best. I have a new saying which I think fits with Taiji very well. "Always seek truth, you never know you may get lucky" I think any variations of opinion we may have is down to having to resort to the clumsy use of words to explain physical process. kindest regards:hat::hat:
If you consider that fa jing only comprises "explosive" movements generated by the waist, then you are way off the mark. The "explosive" is only one manifestation of issuing energy (fa jing). Do you fa jing when you use pung, lu ji and an? Of course you do. If you don't then your Taiji has some very major flaws!!! whoflungdat I don't believe these guys would no fa-jing if it hit them. Yea. What would Yang Jwing Ming know about fa jing!!!!!!!!!!! I would rather take instruction from him than you!!! Very best wishes
Yea, it's not worth basing much by that clip.. That's off an instructional. They obviously aren't 'going for it', it's fairly slow demonstrating.. You can tell that they could clearly express a lot more power if they were "going for it". sheesh
Sorry no offence intended, I'm just saying what I see. Do you fa jing when you use pung, lu ji? yes I can when I do the movement explosively, it depends whether I am doing San Sou or form explosively or doing a training drill. As for teaching you, well I don't think your open minded enough to learn and a little bit rude, but hey I like a challenge.:hat::hat: regards
My apologies, I agree. I was looking at it from a narrowed point of view with regards to them using Fa-jing in the way I see it. regards
And what I'm seeing in the video is probably as much the potential for using Fa-jing as much as actually seeing it being used. e.g. In pushes in the video, I can can see the potential for using Fa-jing at a point in the push.
whoflungdat, As for teaching you, well I don't think your open minded enough to learn and a little bit rude, Sorry if you thought that. I was not being rude, merely pragmatic. You seemed to imply that fa jin is only manifested in its "explosive" form. I was merely pointing out that when I practise my form, there is fa jin at the end of every posture. Even when I am using energies such as Peng, Lu An and Ji. Incidentally I doubt that you could teach me anything in Taiji as I was a member of WTBA as far back as 1998!!! (and have the certificate to prove it). I decided that whilst Erle has some good things to teach, he was off the mark with Yang style. Very best wishes
whoflungdat, Many thanks for your reasoned and well thought out reply!!!! My problem is quite a simple one really. Call me an old pedant if you will (I've been called much worse), but the translation of fajin is "To release, issue, dispatch or deliver energy". It has no inherent connotation of "exploding". Now as someone who knows about fajin (it took me 3 years to understand it,) can you tell me exactly which of the taiji energies you are issuing when you fajin? Very many thanks
I think the word should be explosive, not exploding. As for which energies, simple all of them and conbinations of all of them.
I just watched a vid by (no less) the secretary for WTBA - teaches in Bath UK. 'Whipping' is what I got from it - well ok, I get that type of striking - I can even do it myself... It's funny to me thats a method/ technique of striking - but at the beginning of the vid he says fajin is not a technique.. Well i don't agree - this way is 'a way' of releasing power. IN OTHER WORDS a method or technique! Is it the only way to fajin (release/issue power)? - no (I don't think so) Also I have to say, I'm not a huge fan of what he demos toward the end. i find it rather messy.. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDS8o_brNnE"]YouTube - JERRY SHAW FA-JING (1of2)[/ame]
Fu Zongwhens Grandson, Yang style fajin exercises. More to my tastes i would say. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToUyWr809Cg&feature=related"]YouTube - Fu Qing Quan - Fajing[/ame]
cloudhandz, Thanks for these clips. The first guy is a bit of a joke. He does not not even observe the first principle of Yang style taijiquan "High Spirit". He is constantly looking downwards!!!! And as for the "jump" when issuing - well!!!!!!! I had not seen the second clip (of Fu Qing Quan) but this is a nice example of "real" Yang style Fa Jin. Very best wishes
