EU referendum

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by cloudz, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It's maybe not a good idea to abuse a mod with any actual valid criticism.

    Edit: the swearing ain't so good either.
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The brexit poll, and brexit are one and the same thing, you can't just mess the bed on purpose and then complain your bed isn't clean, as the popular saying goes:
    "if you poop the bed, then your just going to have to lie in a poopy bed."
  3. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    For 2017/18, small, marginal and main rates of corporation tax are all set at 19%
    2015-17 they were all 20%.

    You have to go back a further year or two before the differences amount to anything meaningful. So no, I would say we don't currently have this system, other than in name only.
  4. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I'm not 'abusing' anyone, or swearing.. I am defending myself from unfair criticism. If I break the TOS, fine, I can handle it. But until I do and until you are a mod you have nothing to say to me about it.
  5. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    No, they are really not. And neither is talking about them. They are related obviously, but that's all. The referendum was a discussion about what we should do - Brexit or not, talking about 'Brexit' is about how we do it. It's perfectly reasonable for me to not be interested in the latter after having been interested in the former - when it was going on.
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Let's try and keep it friendly please everyone :)
    Dead_pool likes this.
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    We have the system, we have just chosen to set the rates all the same, maybe there's a deeper reason for that, possibly due to abuse by larger businesses, I'll have to look into it.
    cloudz likes this.
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I wonder if brexit was going well you'd still have that opinion?

    What do you think?
  9. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I've already been warned about being flippant.
  10. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    You're splitting hairs: we have the "facility" to set different rates, we are just not using it to do that. Same difference. The original point stands.
    Our current tax policy for business profits is a single flat rate for all.. Whatever the reasons, I do find it unfair that those making the biggest profits pay the same rate as those making less. Much much less in some cases.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  12. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Fair point. Take it as a general observation then.

    Don't need to be so hostile about it dude. But, I did join in the discussion a small amount but in the midst of the brexit vote, seeing as this is my area of study, I couldn't handle talking to people about it anymore because too many people were thoroughly, demonstrably, factually wrong about damn near everything and I just couldn't deal with it. However, me choosing not to participate is fine. Its participating and choosing to do it in a half arsed way and being dismissive I have a problem with. Either join in because you want to have a discussion, or if you don't, don't post. I chose the latter, now I'm choosing the former. Yay freedom and so forth.

    And that's fine, but how this doesn't swing the other way either confuses me somewhat. I don't see how May's flip flopping made her more credible than Corybyn.

    No, but if I could meet one who feels this way about the election who actually was willing to talk about it I'd have a lot more faith the position was based on something meaningful. Also, I mean, if you don't want to have a political back and forth, maybe don't get involved in a thread about politics? Just a thought.

    I do seem to have hit a sore spot here. You're more than welcome to see me asking you to do more than say "no" without any further depth as "sniffing", I'll continue to see it as actually trying to have a discussion. If that's pathetic to you then well, there's not much I can say to such a viewpoint is there.
  13. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Well if you want to invoke freedom, then why can't I feel free to answer with my honest feelings at any given time ?
    That's what I have done. Actually, something that doesn't get appreciated enough is that not everyone has to care about the same things equally.
    I was asked a question about the election, I feel I answered with honest feelings, and I don't refute that they are somewhat disinterested.
    I have lost some interest in politics, a lot actually. So what, this place is not about justifying ourselves for every opinion or every feeling.
    It's just about chatting and talking.
    People here need to stop treating discussion in such a precious way.

    See, how I am free to say what I want about what I want, when I want ?
    On top of that, I extend that courtesy to others.
    So when I say I don't really have an opinion on something or am not that interested in engaging, I think it's utterly ridiculous to catch flak for that.

    See: Precious.

    Trust me, she went down in my estimation a lot. Her capacity to front a campaign or even manage it. I can understand she has advisors and all the rest, but it was a shambles top to bottom. With Corbyn I think his background was too far left and I think rather than a long in the tooth politician changing his spots, he dressed himself and his ideology in a coat that would be palitable and attractive to the mainstream vote. Politics is a lot about Sophistry and Corbyn did great, May was crap. However that is/was not my sole criteria when I voted.


    How about I think that my politics are sort of centre and a bit to the right; slightly conservative. But I feel I'm actually much more in tune with community and social values than I was in my thirties for example. Why would I vote for a guy who's coming in from what was/ is the hard/far left essentially. Ideology is the most meaningful reason I can think of for the way I vote. I simply didn't/don't want to vote for a guy like that, so I am left with one "meaningful" choice really.

    This rubbish again. I said I was not interested in talking about Brexit - I'm not and haven't. I said I didn't want to talk about some random ecenomic story about figures I see little direct relevence in.. I answered a question about the election - no problem. I am ok to talk about it a little and say what I think. Which in the end is really not that much or particularly insightful to anyone - I think, but that's fine, it's just talking right.

    When you get jumped on my a small mob, when you just share what you really think, it does make you wonder.. Only one person took the time to actually respond properly. I simply don't appreciate how some people try and converse on this board, so I won't treat everyone the same here. It's just that simple, no apologies. I have a tendency to respond to people 'in kind'.

    I don't have to name names as I think it's pretty obvious.

    When people speak to me like true genuine stand up people, they'll get a decent, polite grown up response - I like to think. If someone speaks to me in a way I disagree with, that's another matter. It's all fair game then.

    Mod Note: Watch the language. SP
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2017
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I guess that polite, grown up name calling was directed at me?
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Personally, "my feelings" are that a lot of people were hoodwinked in voting for brexit, with feelings and vague promises/obvious lies, and now when the actual facts show how terrible it is for the country, many people are trying to wash their hands of their collective responsibility, as if the information wasn't freely available the entire time.

    It reminds me of a minor version of the collective dillusions of the past that pop up occasionally, like the south sea bubble, or the Dutch orchid/tulip mania,

    Tulip mania - Wikipedia
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    #delusions# even, sorry 'bout that.
  17. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Sure, I think people have understood your feelings just fine. I've stated this a few times already, but seeing as you asked me how I thought Brexit was going you seem to need reminding. I voted Remain. Seeing as you're so astute, why would I voted against something if I genuinely beleived it would "go well" and was the right choice at the time?

    Your question is clearly devisive and an attempt at point scoring on the subject. Sorry, but I'm not interested in your schoolboy games and tactics. You think you're clever, but I'm not as impressed.

    That you keep talking to me like some ignorant "leaver" is a joke, and you expect friendly discussion after you throw uncalled for insults around. As I said I respond in kind and you have on a number of occasions now addressed me in a totally douchebag way as far as I am concerned: not just this thread.

    I recall having to invite you to train with me because you were being such a douche on a BJJ thread for instance. Keep your distance and I'll keep mine, that way I think we'll do everyone a favour.

    That I expressed sympathy with the Leave campaign in the preceding discussion is neither here nor there really. I think as I voted Remain, that is a clear indication of where I stand on the practical and pragmatic side of the Brexit issue; a few (ideological) sympathies aside.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
    Dead_pool likes this.
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    AFAIK I've not insulted you, I may of said that many people who did think leave was a good idea may not grasp the facts, but I never insulted you, if you read it to mean I thought that it included you then I apologise of course.

    I know I can be abrasive at times, but that's because I'm here for debate, it's not meant personally, and I try to make sure I never insult anyone personally, ideas yes, people no.

    I can't remember any interactions with you anywhere else, but I'm open to spar with anyone, so if I'm ever in the area, Ill take you up on the offer, if you ever extend it again.

    Ps I had forgotten you voted remain, but either way I'd actually be interested in your viewpoint, factually it seemed very clear "leave" wasn't being honest with many people, but they obviously were more trusted by the public then the remain side, which I still find confusing.
  19. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Listen take this to PM if you like, I have no problem chatting with you and maybe resolving any personal differences that way. You may have forgotten but I did PM you and invite you to come do some sanda or stand up grappling - but whatever, it was a while ago and I don't really care eitherway. Anyone is free to come train anytime in North London, contact through PM or paste the link below etc.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    ahhh it was the standing wrist locks thing, as I said if I'm ever that way I'll swing by,
    Cheers for the pm, I'd completely forgotten about it.

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