'Essential batto & Kenjutsu: Killing Arts Of the Japanese Sword'

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Dead_pool, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    This is our dilemna, neither my sensei nor I ever asked Brian Wrightson about our history thoroughly enough before his passing. Though im aware he spent a very long time in the "far east"...

    I was 11 at the time so excuse my terrible memory but I believe he studied "Sakura Batto" while in Japan (though he referred specifically to a "Chiba") under an outcasted student.

    This is quite literally all we know regarding our sword style, my Sensei (Taran McCarnun) has many detailed notes written by Brian Wrightson and is attempting to piece our history.

    JuJutsu wise, i've not questioned my sensei regarding that, im learning a martial art not studying History but I believe we've traced that back far further. (though again, martial arts aren't meant to be history lessons, nor is ancestry meant for bragging rights like many students seem to believe)

    Yes my Gendai school may be flawed weapon wise but let's not pretend traditional schools are perfect either.

    Reality however is that studying naginata, nunchaku, sai or even sword is wasted energy - the likelihood of ever using those in a real world scenario is almost nil.

    Then again, I do not share my opinions with others, I do not wish to "preserve" an ineffective and out-moded martial art. We have books and books on the subject that preserve it well enough.
    I intend on improving my own ability, for my own gain, for my own safety.

    Taran Sensei does not intend on "stealing" other schools techniques, though you might think the videos make him look bad his knowledge is very sound indeed. As stated, he intends on furthering his own technique, picking out the details he'd missed.
    Will he then teach us those finer details? I hope not, again, it is on the student's head to do their own soul searching and own self improvement. Being spoon-fed everything is not the way to go.

    As for widening my circles, they couldn't be wider, I attend many seminars and have met many martial artists. This is my attempt to gain a well rounded knowledge of "everything"
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    To be honest it's not even a matter of it being done thoroughly, it's pretty basic stuff we are talking about. Things that are usually imparted in some way as part of the instruction one receives in these types of arts.


    Well I've never heard of it, that's not saying a lot though, and I'm fairly certain those I study under haven't either unless something has changed.

    At the end of the day though it shouldn't be too hard to find mention of it.

    I think like many others in similar situations you've misunderstood the reasons why people make such a big deal about the history of an art, the same for "ancestry".

    It's not about bragging rights, well not for most of us and not in the way you make out. As far as traditional arts go, which your system makes a rather big deal about trying to stick to, the the history is indicative of where it came from and the whys and hows of what it transmits. That's rather important when you think about it.

    If you simply want to kick ass then yeah there are plenty of ways that don't require you to know the background of the systems but to be honest I've yet to meet a serious student, regardless of what they study, not know about the background of their chosen style.

    Lets not try and make this some childish tit for tat. Whether or not other schools, not sure exactly which ones you are referring to, are flawed doesn't come in to it really. Actually in what way are these schools flawed?

    Your art is what it is and there are certain impressions given by a lot of the information in the public domain, that is what is making people ask questions.

    I think you misunderstand certain aspects of weapon work.

    Again you are showing your ignorance, sorry if that is blunt. What exactly do these books preserve?

    As for the out-moded comment we'll again I think you need to examine just how some of these systems work and train the student, it's not all as black and white as you seem to think.

    A worthy cause no doubt. Out of interest what work does you school do with regards to soft skills?

    Sorry to sound like a broken record but you do need to look at these things a little closer. Also spoon feeding is not exactly how I'd describe the training many of us think of.

    Also I keep seeing these statements where people indicate that yes there is an issue, for example with sword, but then automatically following up with "his knowledge is sound". That seems a little odd.


    Your previous statement indicates otherwise. Iai alone has a number of teachers throughout the uk who are, dare I say, more than capable of delivering the subject to a good standard and that's not even getting into the other odd bit of koryu that is knocking around.

    As with Joseki I think you are coming unstuck because you are, to a degree, arguing from a position of ignorance. There's a big difference between those clips and what most of us are used to and I'm sorry but it doesn't just come down to being "rusty".

    If you are happy then great, I'm genuinely pleased believe it or not, but there's little point trying to justify what you are doing as being what it is claiming to be.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  3. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    I should probably apologise for using the term "bragging rights", I understand the necessity to assess someone elses qualifications and whom taught them. It simply is not something I prioritise. As I'd previously stated my priority is learning the martial art. To assime being dedicated to my training requires a knowledge of history is daft, I highly doubt every premiership footballer (for want of a better example) can trace it's history either and it's far more linear.

    I also understand many people study weapons as a means of self fulfilment. Many of the students at Junsei Ryu share the same mentality, you've probably guessed however that I don't share this mentality.

    Often, this dispute will boil down to a person's definition of "preservation", where many might argue that everything must remain exactly how it was, ie "grammer nazis" whom hate a changing language and those who feel it can be tweaked and changed. I can only speak from a jujutsu point of view as it is what I study but my training includes all (well many of) the balance breaking etc methods of traditional jujutsu with alterred methods for modern scenarios.
    Something unecessary in kenjutsu/battojutsu. Should my sensei be amazing? No, he is a student like myself, learning like myself.

    Iai and other schools whom specialise in sword should and are very good at what they do because it is all they do, they've devoted themselves to it... Well most are, the iai students whom attended the "Martial Arts Show"... They were catching bokken between their hands, I needn't tell you how stupid that would have been with a shinken.
     
  4. Meitetsu

    Meitetsu Valued Member

    the ukemi is interesting:knuckles on the ground to back bridge
     
  5. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    Agreed, I was horrified as a child seeing the "advanced" version.
    The fists are used as a beginning student, however after a few weeks you're expected to flip into this position.
    Raising the coccyx clear of the floor to prevent injury, the slapping dicipates energy and also keeps you aware as to their position. Flailing your arms would probably result in further injury (stating the obvious abit there)
     
  6. Meitetsu

    Meitetsu Valued Member

    sorry so going advanced means not putting your hands on the ground at all?
     
  7. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    Oops, made a typo, I meant Dissipation (think that's closer to the correct spelling)

    This is why I put "advanced" in speech marks, there is hardly a difference between either execution, I'd like to hear your opinion on our ukemi?

    (which I pronounce oo-kem-me, for Chris Parker's own reference)
     
  8. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    Looking into the subject (thank the lord for google) there is a city "Sakura" within Chiba, perhaps Brian Wrightson Sensei was simply referring to the general location as opposed to a specific school and lineage. This is worth further investigation, as it seems an absolute necessity if I want to prove my dedication... (claws out, haha)
    I also recall him doing a demonstration for a monarch. Though, a monarch probably sees their fair share of demonstrations, it may be my way of connecting the dots. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  9. Meitetsu

    Meitetsu Valued Member

    Truthfully slapping the ground to dissipate energy is fine on mats but might not be the best idea on wood or concrete (should one have to do ukemi outside). Also I am a big fan of staying compact (arms in) and maintaining visual contact with the 相手Aite/opponent throughout. Consistently doing back bridges after each ukemi would probably have a positive fitness result though.
     
  10. Joseki

    Joseki Valued Member

    Interesting you not only having a pop at the Ken (right or wrong the mutual frind as Scottuk is helping out, which i know is one of the best in the uk in this) but now the Ju Jutsu?

    Please explain my "ignorance" with this please?
     
  11. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    Meitetsu, i'm a clumsy git and ukemi has helped me avoid some face meets floor moments. I think it is important for everybody to know (not just martial artists either)

    I don't mind scraping my arm on concrete, women dig scars ;)
     
  12. Meitetsu

    Meitetsu Valued Member

    Couldn't agree more!
     
  13. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Hmm. I know a lot of this is covered by Dean, but there's a few points I'd like to make, perhaps a little less gently than Dean has...

    Okay, I get him being honest (in that he is giving the best information he has, based on what he has been told, and hasn't really embellished or added to it in regards to creating false histories), but that's kinda besides the point if what he's been told is fabricated nonsense. He retains his integrity on a personal level, sure, but he's still giving out fabricated nonsense (albeit not necessarily knowingly).

    I'll put it this way. Fundamentalist creationist Christians can be completely honest as well... that doesn't mean that when they tell you that the Earth is 6,000 years old, and that dinosaurs were put in the ground as a way for God to test our faith it isn't completely fabricated nonsense. Bluntly, that's similar to the idea of Junsei Ryu being about preserving the traditions of Japanese martial arts, when there is no connection to any traditional Japanese martial art at all.

    Yeah.... all that tells me is that he's dedicated. It doesn't say anything about what he's doing, whether it's any good, legit, authentic, practical, worthwhile, valuable, or anything else. It just tells me the guy is willing to take a long commute to be a teacher... of whatever it is he's teaching.

    Yeah, but it's not a fact that means anything. I mean, we're talking traditional Japanese arts here, you do realize that for a large number of practitioners, that has meant things like completely uprooting their lives and moving to a foreign country (Japan) for a decade or more.... and that's just to learn, not to be a teacher. So Taran decided to make a long commute to continue to be a teacher, even though he'd been well aware of the issues people saw in what he's presenting for a long time, but wasn't willing to make a shorter commute to actual traditional Japanese arts local to him, as a student? What do you really think this "fact" is telling us?

    Why someone does things is as, if not more important than what they're wanting to do.

    McDojo? No, I don't think I'd apply that term. The issue is that he's presenting something that has no basis.

    Hi Shane,

    Just one additional question, if you don't mind. Can you tell us more about your background? By that I mean, have you trained in any other arts, and how long have you been with Junsei Ryu?

    Right, let's get to this.

    The problems (aside from a couple of instances) haven't been about how well things have been performed, it's been about what has been performed in the first place. There has been shown very fundamental issues in combative principles, usage and understanding of weapons, and so on. It can be performed brilliantly, and there will still be the same issues.

    Well, the fact that he's not missing any fingers tells us he hasn't done that with a shinken... but no, the fact that there was no tsuba, if that was the reason he missed entirely where he was gripping the sword, is no excuse. Plenty of traditional schools don't even have a tsuba on their bokuto... and you'd be hard pressed to find any of them ever make such a mistake. It happened because he was showing a combatively flawed technique in a rather flawed fashion, taking short cuts (by not actually "drawing" the sword), which lead to his left hand catching the tsuka halfway towards the tsubadome, rather than closer to the kashira, and, to retain the gap between his hands, when his right hand caught the sword, it was at the blade. He went too fast, took shortcuts, and screwed up. Additionally, as a technique, it was just a bad one with incredibly low chance of success (another of those hallmarks that there is no real basis to the weaponry, including sword, in Junsei Ryu).

    I'll re-iterate, then. He was not using it like a naginata. He was using the way the Ryukyu (Okinawan) traditions use a bo. The training method (a solo kata) is not a Japanese training method, it's an Okinawan one. Everything showed that Taran has no idea how a naginata is used at all. The justification you're presenting is even more indication of no understanding of the weapon, you realize. I mean, you do know that "naginata" means "mowing down sword", yeah? "Swinging it about", not madly, of course, is the way these things work.

    Occasional mistranslations I'd go with.... but it's frequent here. Going through the magazines, for instance, there are mistakes running through pretty much every single article there. The you-tube clips are also full of them, with mis-uses of terms like "embu", and so on. When put together, the impression is of someone who has no real grasp of the culture, language, context, or usage of terminology of the very thing he's trying to put himself forward as a champion of. Again, your justification fails badly.

    Yeah... you might want to read a little deeper and wider, then.

    Well, that was taken from the statements on the Junsei Ryu page...

    Yeah... I don't think anyone, at any point, has made any mention of any ranking at all. Just that, for a guy (Taran) who claims that his mission is to promote and preserve traditional Japanese martial arts, it'd be good if he learnt some.

    Yeah, I saw that... as well as the retraction of said "demotion", as "the message fell on deaf ears", whatever that means... But, from reading that, it was a group of unrelated, modern, Western quasi-Japanese systems who were all doing that, yeah? So, uh, who were they proving anything to? Themselves? For what?

    But, probably the most important thing to realize is that rankings, such as Dan etc, only have any relevance within the art that it applies to. In other words, a 5th Dan in Kendo is not equivalent to a 5th Dan in Karate... or in Aikido.... or in, say, the Bujinkan to take an extreme... so trying to talk about what "a large panel agreed was adequate" really doesn't have any relevance... unless the panel was made up entirely of people from the organisation/art itself. In which case, the question becomes why the people were ranked as they were in the first place...

    Yeah... as Dean said, you might want to get out more.

    Again, as Dean said, but what are those fundamental principles? To take the Naginata clip, there was no understanding of any of the fundamental principles of that weapon.... so what is he explaining? Misinterpretations?

    Yeah, again, this hasn't been part of the issue. But, I do have to say, his actions (as described) don't actually fit with the idea that he doesn't want to be teaching....

    Then he shouldn't do it. This is exactly what I saw as my major concern when Scott explained Taran's plans. If he wants to promote and preserve traditional Japanese martial arts, the first step is learning them. But more importantly, to use them as a "stop gap" method to fill in pieces of his existing art is to completely miss the point of training in Koryu... it ain't the techniques, and Taran seems to fall into the same trap that many modern systems and practitioners do, of thinking that martial arts are techniques.

    A basic reference to what, though? If it's a basic reference to anything close to what is shown in the you-tube clips, it's a basic reference to baseless and invented approaches to sword, showing no understanding of combative realities, combative principles, the realities of sword, or anything else. Frankly, far from "essential", if you want to know about sword.

    Yep, just to re-iterate, a question on how long you've been with Taran, really.

    My take is that they're following the inaccurate idea that Fusen Ryu has newaza, and that Fusen Ryu's supposed newaza is in Judo, so they're extrapolating from there... but I'm more concerned with the "comparison between Ryukyu and Japanese Bojutsu methods". There are two Ryukyu practitioners to show that side of things, all well and good, but then there's Taran to show the "Japanese method". However, Junsei Ryu's bojutsu methods are primarily Okinawan, with some Chinese touches, and a bit of fantasy/movies thrown in.

    To illustrate:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWNKn7cAJvg"]Chogi Kishaba - Yamane Ryu Bojutsu - YouTube[/ame]
    Ryukyu (Yamane Ryu) Bojutsu. Note that the Bo is primarily held in the middle, dividing the Bo into thirds, and there is frequent striking by flicking one end forwards, then the other. Note also, that the kata are performed solo.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMcHnTg9CDE"]Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu Shoden no Kata #4 - YouTube[/ame]
    Nippon (Kukishin Ryu) Bojutsu. Note that the Bo is used in an extended fashion, by sliding the hands, rather than being held in the middle for the majority of actions. Kata are performed against an opponent (in this case, with a sword).

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWXmTm7y-6w"]Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu Bojutsu - YouTube[/ame]
    Nippon (Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu) Bojutsu. A different use to the Kukishin one, but retaining the same traits of Japanese usage of the weapon, such as using the weapon at an extended range, and again, the kata being paired.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJtmiF1xBkw"]Kongojo Kata (The Pilgrim's Staff) - YouTube[/ame]
    Junsei Ryu Bojutsu. Primarily, this mimics the Ryukyu (Okinawan) methods, with some postural and thrusting ideas taken from Chinese approaches, and using a Japanese priests staff (for some unknown reason).

    Hmm....

    Oh, and I'm not bringing up what I've seen on Taran's (Junsei Ryu's) twitter feed... suffice to say that there are some issues with someone he's been talking to... and listening to...
     
  14. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Sakura (Cherry Blossoms) is a town in Chiba Prefecture.... there are a few arts associated with that area, but none look anything like what has been shown by Junsei Ryu. Sadly, the whole "mysterious teacher, unknown system" tact is fairly well known, and has rarely, if ever, proven to be anything close to credible.

    But there are things that can be addressed. The first thing to do is to look to the methods being taught. Are they combatively viable? If not, and you don't have a good reason for that, or if they're being passed off as being viable but don't back it up with the reality of them, then it's highly doubtful that there's much authentic there. Sadly, in this case, that's about as far as we'd need to go, based on all evidence shown.

    The Jujutsu that I've seen is basically some odd Aikido, some major karate influence (particularly in the postures, as well as the terminology), some generic Judo-style throws, and little more. There doesn't seem to be much of a real basis to it either, honestly.... as it's the creation of Brian Wrightley again.

    Yeah... not really sure what you're getting at here. Your school is flawed in that it claims something that it has no understanding of, teaches things it doesn't know, and believes that it's preserving something it's actually adding to the misunderstanding of. When it comes to traditional schools (just one quick question, if you're not interested in traditional schools, why would you be training at one that promotes itself purely on such ideals?), what might you be referring to? At the very least, the traditional arts that come from actually using the weapons studied will have a far greater idea of how they're used... and why... and, well, a hell of a lot more besides.

    "Wasted energy"? I really don't think you're in the right school, then... even a misguided school that focuses on such things will tell you that it's not wasted energy, although the reasons are not about using the weapons in a duel with the punk kids down the street....

    Yeah... you're really missing the point... and you really do seem to be in the wrong school.

    Wow, seriously? The videos, as well as the website, magazines, and Taran's interaction on other formats, show gigantic gaps in understanding, misuse of weapons, incongruant training methods brought from one culture to another, huge mistakes in terminology, combatively flawed techniques, and more, but "his knowledge is very sound indeed"? Really? Next, when it comes to the idea that he's going to use the training in another system to "further his own technique, picking out the details he's missed", I really think, if that's the case, he has missed the reality of training in a particular system, particularly Koryu... it's about adopting the approach of that system... not about filling in gaps in another one. I mean, each sword system have their own unique approach to everything, from cutting mechanics, to postural and movement concepts, to just how to hold the sword in the first place! So, if he takes these details to fill in "what he's missed" in his Junsei Ryu system, who says they're going to fit?

    Then you get a little odd... Taran is going to go to a Koryu school to learn finer details of sword, to improve his technique and knowledge, but he's then, according to you, hopefully not going to pass on the benefits of such improvements? Seriously? Can you not see the problem there? It isn't about being spoon-fed, it's about teaching, for crying out loud.... if you don't want the teacher to pick you up on finer details, what on earth do you go to them for?

    Yet, for all that, there are some major gaps being seen here.

    You've completely missed the point. Knowing the history tells you where the art came from, where and when it was used, what it's credibility is, and so on. To remain ignorant of that, to the point of assuming that what you're being taught is combatively tested, or historically authentic, with little to nothing to back that up, is frankly courting disaster by inviting poor training. The footballer example, by the way, is flawed in a number of ways. Knowing the track record of a coach for the team, for instance, would be considered the same as knowing the history of a Jujutsu system... where has it come from, and what is it's record of application. You may not be interested in the history, but that doesn't mean it's not an important part of the system.... after all, without that history, the art wouldn't be here now. And, if there's no history, what is the art, when it all comes down to it? Now, that doesn't mean it needs to be an ancient art, but there needs to be some kind of track record.... MMA is a new art, but it has it's history (as a modern combative sport), drawing from a range of sources, with a development in a combative arena. If there's a Jujutsu or Kenjutsu system, which claims to be based on old systems, but has no history backing it up, how do you know what it is you're actually learning?

    Self fulfillment? Okay... not my reason, I gotta say. I train more for the mindset and tactical approaches that get developed throughout the training. But, of course, that depends on it being an authentic system... you don't get a realistic mindset by training unrealistic techniques, bluntly.

    Firstly, preservation means to keep something as it is. Exactly what that something is is what varies... but, in the case of Junsei Ryu, the question really is "how can you be preserving something you don't have in the first place?" As to the rest, I'm not entirely sure what you understand of "traditional jujutsu"... and as far as what level your instructor should be, this is really sounding more and more like excuses. The head instructor, 5th Dan practitioner, public face of the art, dominant demonstrator, publisher of books and magazines, doesn't have any real requirement to be anything more than a "student, like yourself"? I'd be looking for someone a fair bit beyond myself as an instructor, really....

    I seriously doubt they were real Iai students... probably more along the lines of Junsei Ryu, frankly. Such methods aren't part of Iai, and are shown by people who have an image in their heads of what they think such arts should be, or contain, without actually having a clue. Sadly, such "Martial Arts Shows" are filled with such "practitioners".

    Well...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYU_PIdle1s"]Junsei Ryu Hoshin Jutsu Renmei Basic Blocking - YouTube[/ame]
    The blocking actions are karate, not jujutsu...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HS4EafuJLw"]Junsei Dachi Kata (Basic Fighting Stances) - YouTube[/ame]
    Same with the postures....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FsMYtfl6Ks"]Osoto Makikomi Into Tawara Gaesh - YouTube[/ame]
    I've gone through some of the issues here, ranging from the poor positioning, to nearly dropping the opponent on Taran's own head...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-K5O4ixrOs"]TMAS 2012 Ash McKee Sensei BJJBC.wmv - YouTube[/ame]
    Poor to decent Aikido against karate attacks, with some rather questionable actions...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcoQnbR3sXc"]Kotegaeshi Ichiban Henka (Wrist & Forearm Return Throw) - YouTube[/ame]
    No balance taking, poor entry, timing issues, and so on...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg7C-E-QEEc"]JunseiOldTeaser.wmv - YouTube[/ame]
    Oh dear... no balance taking, bad positioning, bad distancing, no concept of hyoshi...

    Did that help?
     
  15. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Damn, double post....

    But while I'm here, and to take some of the pressure off Taran, here's his teacher performing Battojutsu:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCSXhFZelk"]Dr Ash McKee Shihan Performing Battojutsu 2004 - YouTube[/ame]

    Here we can clearly see the same lack of real understanding of usage of a blade, with odd body movements, a lack of control over the sword (check the last cut down, and the way it bounces back up), misunderstood stolen aspects (getting the Kaiten Chiburi as found in Katori Shinto Ryu, Takenouchi Ryu etc flat out backwards), the same bluntly useless spinning of the sword before noto, combatively questionable ideas such as standing up into the enemy at the end of the kata.... really, not good, nor in any way indicative of authentic usage of sword.

    As I said earlier, I don't think that Taran is entirely to blame. He's just going on what he's been told. Unfortunately, what he's been told has some issues, to say the least.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Sounds like your interest is in real world appllication. Since Junsei seems to be based on WJJF style jujitsu, (from the background publically available) what difference in technique and training methods have been done to suit this end?

    Is there verbal 'prefight' material?
    Is there legal 'afterfight' material?
    Is there any Self defence 'Tactical' work beyond lets hit this guy and maybe do a throw/limb takedown?

    In what form does the Jujitsu training occur. Is it 'one steps' with no resistence, is there randori, if so what kinds?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    SASchofield,

    Sorry I just wanted to clear up any misunderstandings.

    I'm not upset nor do I think any of the other members here are either. Also I don't think any of us here pretends lineage is all that matters.

    If that's what you think our points have been then I feel you have missed them or at worst are misinterpreting them for whatever reasons.

    As for deserving the "expletive" that we are taught well I'm not sure how you are making a judgement about our study? Especially when by your own admission your teacher is having to seek instruction in the areas many of us study because he lacks even the basic foundation of the skill set.

    If you wish to clear this up then I'm sure we can do it on here? After all I don't think everyone reads twitter.


    The problem with discussions like these is that they can very quickly become personal. At the end of the day if your art is being questioned then many see this as a personal attack, thinking that if people are questioning what they do then indirectly they are questioning their judgement. In short many people react poorly to being told they are wrong.

    It's not my or I'd wager anyone else's intention here to "have a go" for the hell of it, you have your desires for study which is great. However understand that many here have interests of a similar scope and beyond, they take the wholistic approach to their training wanting to understand every bit of what they do.

    Now if anything that doesn't mean they think only one thing matters, i.e. lineage, in fact it probably means they have a greater breadth and depth of understanding of their arts. Something to think about maybe?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  18. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    For those confused as to what he refers to, it's my tweet below:

    " Upsetting alot of martial arts groups today. If they want to pretend lineage is all that matters then they deserve the *insert bodily function* they're taught."

    The link to said post is here:
    https://twitter.com/MrSASchofield/status/264800530176552961



    I'm currently on my phone so can not reply in full but will do so soon.
     
  19. Joseki

    Joseki Valued Member

    thought it would not take long before "someone" wanted to rip my post apart, lol oh dear... i hope that you are very happy with what you typed? and you feel all that more self important for doing it Chris?

    never in my 10 years with MAP have i seen such self importance... So many people within the martial arts talk about what it is to them what it is to others yet you dont practice what you teach you find holes in other peoples systems and scream like your on a witch hunt? if thats what martial arts is to you well good luck and have a good life in your own little bubble, on that point maybe if you have not done so already post a video of your own training ? maybe someone across the world would find what you do a joke to? maybe not? we will never know hey?
     
  20. SASchofield

    SASchofield Valued Member

    That tweet refers to anyone who really does prioritise their ancestry over the training. If this doesn't apply to you, you needn't acknowledge it.

    To call me arrogant because I know a man, or because I don't share your view is just rude.
    I might not prioritise ancestry but you might like to hear I only found this forum while trying to trace it myself. I wished to know how our techniques had adapted for better or worse, so that I could alter my training accordingly.
    My sensei both insist we use our own initiative to improve, hence the research.



    A little bit about me - I'm 19, I've been training since I was 5 (too many Bruce Lee movies)
    I'd joined a local Judo club but had to move to two others before I was 10 (Sensei's retire in Britain apparently)
    I left at ten with the intention of furthering my own knowledge, hoping to return to Judo later.
    I then joined a local ju jitsu club (Hankyo Kempo) whom taught me all i'd learnt before like mai ai, kazushi etc and then some.
    Later, upon Brian Wrightson Sensei's passing, Hankyo became Junsei.

    As I'd mentioned, I can only judge my training from a judo/jujutsu point of view. This however is a very high standard (when compared to other british jujitsu schools, i've not had the pleasure of visiting Japan)

    Whether that appears in the video is none of my concern, I know i'm in the right place for me. I've ended up in some gnarly situations and my jujutsu has got me out of it very well indeed.

    As for the legality of my self defence - better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

    Takes some effort typing on a mobile, i've not yet had the chance to thoroughly read the enormous post by an above poster. I think it will be more of the same however.
     

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