'Essential batto & Kenjutsu: Killing Arts Of the Japanese Sword'

Two things:

First off, the late Donn Draeger was a giant. Sitting where we do today its easy to look at Draeger and wonder loudly, "What was he thinking?" That because today we have access to things like the INTERNET that can get any Joe with a computer information that Draeger could only dream about.

Secondly, Draeger had to rely on his own good judgement and diplomacy to get Japanese masters to even look his direction. His books were not only comprehensive but some of the first truly well-informed sources of the 60-s and 70-s.

As far as your comment about traditional Japanese sword I strongly suggest that you dig around for any information you can find on TOYAMA-RYU or any of its three splinters.

In 1874 in the Toyama district of Tokyo, the Rikugun Toyama Gakko, or Toyama Military Academy, is established to train the officers and non-commissioned officers of Japan's modern, western-style army. The students would study tactics drawn from French and later Prussian models, marksmanship, calisthenics, French and Prussian swordsmanship using the European saber, military music, and other normal military subjects. Moreover, research and experiments were conducted with fire teams who performed tests with machine guns. The military academy was moved in 1936 to the vicinity of Zama city, 37 miles southwest of Tokyo, and given the name Sobudai by Emperor Hirohito. The Army Officers Academy, Sobudai had a total of six kendo dojo and one jukenjutsu (bayonet) dojo. The buildings are each about 200 feet long and 40 feet wide, with three separate entrances. Sobudai is divided into two sections: north, for the Japanese; and south, for the foreign students from China, Korea, Indochina, etc. Three kendo dojo and one smaller dojo (about 60' x 40', possibly for instructors) are on the south side. Two kendo dojo and one juken-jutsu dojo were on the north side.

A 1941 Toyama Military Academy fencing manual dated the birth of Toyama Ryu as 1925 indicating a probable re-evaluation of the then-current techniques. Reports of inadequate performance of the European-style saber work in the Russo-Japanese War continue to haunt the curriculum. On-going concern for preserving the Japanese sword as a martial icon is supported by the need for a heavier weapon capable of dealing with bayonet techniques in close-quarters fighting. The 1941 manual provides only a written description of the five Toyama Ryu iai kata, as well as describing Omori Ryu and Eishin ryu kata for a total of seven. NAKAYAMA Hakudo is reported to have instructed in Omori Ryu at the Academy, and another famous master, Takano Sasaburo, was the Academy's chief fencing master during this time period. "The 1944 copy of Gunto no Soho11, published by the academy, shows a photograph sequence for seven kata. When compared against the 1941 manual, we see an addition of two kata, a section on tameshigiri (test cutting), and the incorporation of kesagiri (kesagiri, the diagonal cut was not used in the 1925 description)." (Source Guy Powers) There are a very few out of print books on the subject (see: The Crimson Sword).

An alternate would be locating information on KEISHA-RYU. The Japanese Police Revolt of 1887 was due in no small part to the ab-reaction of the former military elite resisting reform suggested by the influence of Western culture. The police had established the Batto-tai (“Drawn-sword Unit”) during the 1877 Satsuma Rebellion, though their established style, Keishicho Ryu (“Police Department Style”) was codified in 1886 from the efforts of outstanding Kenshi, representing various Ryu, who had been hired by the department in 1880. A set of ten unique kata, or sword forms (Keishicho Gekkan Kata), from six different existing styles of the day , were later the inspiration for the Dai Nippon Butokukai Kendo Kata in 1906.

You want combat worthy material, thats a place to start.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

Erm...I wasn't criticising Draeger at all.
I was merely using his book as an example of how authentic sword work (I think) is fairly plain, simple and direct (as far as I can tell).
Given it's designed for cutting people down that's what you'd expect.
When compared to the vids in this thread there's a difference there.

 

Hmmm....sorry bout that...I think I have some leftover energies from some things I have read on other forums. There sometimes seems to be a tendency to criticize earlier pioneers in light of what we know today. My apologies.

As far as the characterization of Asian sword, I think you are absolutely correct. IMHO sword work is much like MThand that way. The stuff that works well is a small number of simple, well-practiced methods. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

Just a thought but has anyone trained with Junsei Ryu?

 

I thought it was just a "local brand". Its not actually a "RYU" in the traditional sense, is it? Its just people using the suffix the way some folks use "KWAN" when they make up their own Korean art, right? I didn't get the idea that this was much more than a MA school that had borrowed a Japanese theme for their structuring. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

That's how I saw it too.
Made up style that may, or may not, have elements taken from actual japanese styles (but probably not).

 

Actually they ain't far from me, but as Mr McCarnun and I had words on another forum over his implied koryu connections, I don't think I would be a very welcome visitor.

However - if he were to extend an invitation, I would make the journey to say hi.

 

Ryu Brand ? no matter at this time about the use of words, just wondering if anyone has trained with them? simple question really lol

 

I'm sure Taran would have an open door?
I just dont see the point of having a pop at someone with out having trained with them? no offence i could go on you could pop at what i say and write as thats easy on a keyboard but whats the point?

 

Personally, I don't have a pop at what they teach - I'm sure their jujutsu waza are just fine even though I don't like their swordsmanship. The only thing I have ever picked them up on are their historical claims.

Open door or not, you don't publicly disagree with someone and then turn up on their door expecting a pleasant welcome. Rather rude.

 

I disagree. Can I still come round for tea?

 

Yes. You won't be needing kevlar, trust me.

 

Because I can't train with every idiot in the world to prove they are idiots. There just ain't enough hours in the day. The vids are more than proof enough for me. If you train with them, then sorry, you're being fed garbage.
I am sure they are lovely people who kiss babies and save whales but it counts for nothing I'm afriad.

The Bear.

 

LOL thats easy to type though isnt it but im afriad until you do? you have no true opion on it! you just have insults and words that are meaningless.
No i dont train with the school but i have alongside them, i dont do sword (well only got my Okuiri sho with ****o Muso Ryu but nothing more than that and that was a fare few years ago) not any good at it (in my view), but i have seen Taran use a sword and would not use the word idiot to say what its like?
Though i have seen some very very good Japanese and western Sensei in action, but what do i know lol

 

Can you offer anything beyond making daft attacks at some of the people here who are offering critiques of these videos?

Really if all you have got to offer is something along the lines of "you're all mean cowards" then I have to wonder at what you hope to accomplish.



Opinions can be given based on the information put out in the public domain.

If the videos are questionable then people can point this out.

If the background of the system seems questionable then this can be highlighted.

There's no need to go and see them as what is being critiqued is in the public domain, the evidence that is being addressed is there for all to see.

Now if you could counter some of the points made here that'd be cool but if you are going to continue in the same way well you'll do more harm than good.

 

was that pointed at me? or at all people that are attacking?

If me i asked a simple question have you trained with them? last thing i expected was being correct in my use of words im a simple counrty bloke dont have all the correct terms to use but i will say it as i see it?

 

I have to get back to work, but i will come back and say some points? in a respectful way.

 

http://www.junseiryu.org/hogosha_renmei.html

 

Reminds me of those awful "sokeship councils" or the ever bizarre "Ichigun Ichimi"

 

That's quite an interesting statement. You're saying you don't do sword, but you know that this fellow with the horrible videos is good? How in the world could you possibly know what is good or not? By your own admission, you've only ever had the smallest introduction to the sword arts, but you feel qualified to tell a slew of people with many years of serious training that they don't know what they're talking about?

That's some pretty large cojones there sir!