? Your assumption about me being in the dillman camp is incorrect. Your wrong im not in his organization. I look to no one person as my teacher or master hence my ability to remain objective, unlike you. <<deleted by admin>> By the way how many martial arts does he now sell on video, how old is he? He says it takes thre life times to learn tai chi yet he sells lots of different arts on his videos as well as tai chi <<deleted by admin>> 1.2 "Freedom of Speech": While we believe very much in freedom of speech & personal expression, you DO NOT have an absolute right to say whatever you want in this community. 1.2.1 Anything that goes against our core beliefs and the purpose for which this community was designed may not be allowed. 1.2.2 Posts and comments that are meant to incite conflicts between members or outside parties are strictly prohibited.
Frank, Frank, Frank. Nice try me old chum but it just doesn't wash. I'm not specifically devoted to any single teacher either. You have trained with Dillman and it seems you have the Dillman diatribe to go with it. I can point people to quite a few boards that have some really tasty things to say about Dillman also <<but you wouldn't, would you... >> ... I've got one bookmarked for special occasions like these but I'll refrain from peanut gallery politics. <<deleted by admin>> If it sounds like a troll it is a troll. Peddle it elsewhere buddy.
I was going to try to post something but you beat me to it Syd. Although I may not want to delve into Erle's stuff all that much, I don't see why anyone should launch such a barrage of invective against the guy. It sounded pretty much like 'the party line'. As such not worth paying the slightest heed to. If you attack someone's style you should be willing to back it up. Speaking ill of people behind their backs is always pretty shabby, and not the actions of balanced people. If you do not have the courage to confront the people directly, well..... It's all politics, in my not so very humble opinion. Bitchy-quan, handbags at dawn kinda stuff. Erle seems a nice bloke to me. I believe he's in Wales these days, so maybe I'll try to visit/go to a workshop sometime. I still might not be into his stuff, but I see no reason to attack him for it.
didn't bruce lee say something along the lines of "all vague notions must fall before a student can call himself a master"? erle seems to fit this description better than i've ever seen. He doesn't beat around the bush, he tells you things straight out and in detail with absolute certainty. He'll even go as far as to point out that something is incorrect, even though he's aware that a million other people do it that way. He's so knowledgeable that he's not afraid. A fraud wouldn't be able to do these things, a fraud would make false claims and try to cover them up. The makings of a master if you ask me. Furthermore, he's been studying MA for 20 years before i was even born, and 30 years before i started my own MA training. I've now learned a LOT from him even after 12 years of my own MA training with various teachers and mostly for FREE thanks to his generocity of sharing free information. Who am i to say he's a fraud i have zero evidence, at best it would be speculation. It's quite clear that Erle knows a million times more than 99% of any martial arts teacher currently out there teaching, but cowards choose to attack him because he's more known on the Internet. If your convictions were so strong you'd be speaking of more than just him, you'd be going to all the mcdojo's in the world and challenging all the paper tigers. I'm sorry, but all these petty attacks on him just end up making you look bad, not erle.
well said gt3, I like to check out different styles and views and my conclusion is that Erle has the top stuff to offer, if you don't like it then no one stops you from not buying his videos or reading his books, but going around spreading bs about him just shows what a low life you are yourself. There is nothing worse than people spreading bs about others, I even prefer a fraud rather than a bs spreader..
Keep it civil pls people.... If you are going to make any statements, make sure you can back them up. This is not the place for groundless pro/anti posts. And remember we are talking here about the quality of MA teaching and the art casually dubbed "Erlequan" (which is a light-hearted term made up by some of us 'ere, not endorsed by E.Montaigue Inc. ). The rest is academic. Personal attacks, on ANY teacher or any MAP member will not be tolerated. Hakuna matata
All I can say is that people who come on with wild accusations, broad general statements based on insubstantial rumour with no basis in fact, show themselves to be people of low character and are not worth engaging in discussion. There are so many bent perceptions deliberately twisted to support a false image of Erle that my purpose here was to provide the facts and nothing more. The title of the thread, Erlequan, was a joke title ofcourse but it in no way should be taken to diminish anything he teaches or his skill, that would be missing the point - infact Erle does indeed call a part of his system the Erle Montaigue System of fighting. I provided this information for the balanced reader but inevitably there's always a few people who are without these qualities and who have a vested interest in tarnishing the reputations of others for their own agenda. I'm glad most people are intelligent enough to see right through that.
If you haven't you have atleast 1 degree of seperation to him through others because you tow that party line with obvious fervour. I could care less what you say from here on in ...
Honestly, why would it matter? I know his (Erle's) background has been questioned several times over, but I'll say, see what he does. If you like it, learn from him, if you dont, leave him be. Would you want such attacks anyway if one day, if not already, you are teaching?
The only aspect of Erle's background to be questioned is his teacher Chang Yiu Chun. Logically, the questioning of this persons existence is irrational if you follow the entire thing through to it's conclusion. The reasons for Changs relative obscurity are openly provided for but this seems to frustrate either way due to the circumstances. * Chang entered Australia illegally in the 80's. * Erle did not speak Chinese. * Chang spoke little if any English. * Erle does not know whether Chang Yiu Chun was his real name due to illegal entry. * Much of what Erle came to learn from Chang was from watching and being physically taught due to the language barrier. People who question Chang conveniently do so because of what it is that Chang taught Erle, the Old Yang Style, which he learned as a student of Yang Shao Hou. Erle knows full well what the modern day IMA community is like, this being the case, why would he attribute a great body of what he learned to a person that never existed, knowing full well that his credibility in some quarters would be questioned? The Old Yang Style that Erle teaches is very similar to Chen Pan Lings Old Yang forms that he learned as a classmate of Chang Yiu Chun and student of Yang Shao Hou. I know of other schools out there in the world that have Old Yang forms that claim similarities and relationships to Erle's Old Yang Style. There are people who would mantain an agenda against Erle regardless of the evidence provided ... hate the game, don't hate the player.
Truth Hurts "I never used any profanities or said anything that was not true whoever took this off is a SAD little man flexing his muscles and scared of the Truth." MF
funny these "lots of different arts" are .. 2 (!)..thats a lot..yeah.. and Erle never claimed to have mastered any of them 100%, so your made up argument doesn't quite hold and only shows how little you acutally know about the man you are talking bad about. Either you haven't even checked what arts he teaches or wich I am afraid is the right one you have indeed but still chooses to use the phrase "lots of different arts" in an attempt to make Erle look like a fraud making money buy teaching bad quality in lots of arts when the truth is he teaches with great quality in 2 arts.
That would be me I would've done the same if your comments had been directed at ANY teacher or school (get the salt shaker ready when anyone decides to use the word 'truth' with a capital 'T'!). The particular teacher has nothing to do with it. You are free to express your opinion but your post was inflammatory and aimed at nothing more than inciting conflict between two groups/teachers. This is directly against the TOS of the site. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further. As I have said before (also in the TOS and the stickies at the top of this and the IMA forums), abusive posts and comments put up just for the sake of antagonising others will not be tolerated.
Exactly, I never bothered answering his tirade of nonsense because it was so obviously constructed on foundations of clay it didn't warrant the effort. I am happy however that you answered because it proves my point ... most people see through Mad Franks "truth".
Yes I agree. If Earle was Chinese or at least if he could speak Chinese he would 1. have lost nothing in translation whilst learning from Masters in China who speak no English 2. not have been treated like a foreigner and thus granted more access to “higher skills” training 3. would have live in China for a few more years ( like BK Franzis) and learnt more than he would a 3 week crash course Or yeah don’t forget how he still likes to offer his expert opinion on things he knows little about: http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/empty_force.htm It ain’t real until you’ve got Erle’s stamp of approval It is good to check. However, please be aware that the Chinese customs regarding “ proof” are different from Western ones. 1.Belt grading is a Japanese and Western concept. Kung Fu students are NOT graded in old China. Only you, your classmates and sifu know your skill level. The true test is a no rules competition round or a fight for your life. In old China , people learnt martial arts as a survival skill, not a sport. Belts are irrelevant. 2. As far as I know , there’s no such thing as a Masters Certificate in Martial Arts. You may get degrees or certificates from modern Sports training colleges, but that’s sports and only a recent practice. Especially in Wushu colleges. But Wushu is not real martial arts, it’s dance + acrobatics + Martial arts. Wushu cant save one’s life in an attack. 3.For authenticity, a Master may sometimes grant you a HANDWRITTEN letter ( in Chinese of course) stamped with his personal Jade seal, in red ink. It declares who he is, the student, the duration of study and what the student has learnt. Sometimes th lineage is also indicated. An example can be found at the back of BK Franzis book “ Power of Internal Martial Arts”. Franzis, is American , speaks Chinese & Japanese and spent 20 + years in China. He is a TRUE Western expert of IMA
SC... I've merged your three consec. posts into one - it's better to keep everything together when you post (remember you can Edit your post if you forget something once you Submit).
So Chu King Hong who can speak Chinese and English, who is one of only three officially recognised students of Yang Sau Chung, eldest son of Yang Cheng Fu, and who taught Erle ... held back did he? You know nothing! Go and lay some empty force on Erle and he'll bow down and call you master ... you can't. Erle is entitled to his opinion ... when your a teacher maybe you'll have the guts to put yours out there as openly. Well he was presented with a Master Teaching degree in China, thats a fact! You don't have to speak Chinese to eat the food or cook it. Hilarious ... the peanut gallery speaks. And yet again the brave and noble Taoist, Soggycat, reveals nothing of his own teacher but remains hidden/candid on any detail of his own training; still content to attack the teaching of others. How very Taoist of you.
1. If I want to master the English language to an expert level would I be better off if I learnt from an Englishman or from an English speaking Italian ? Conversely, if I want to learn Chinese Martial Arst, would it be more efficient to learn it from a Chinese speaking teacher than from one who doesn't which means he didn't learn it properly himself. 2. If I were from Japan and wanted to master English, would it be useful for me to learn most of my English over 20 years whilst in Japan and finally head off to jolly good ole England for an intensive 3 week course in English where I'm "tested" by masters ? Can I call myself a " Master of English" then ?? :woo: 3. It is IMPOSSIBLE to learn the finer points of any art unless you and your teacher speak the language that the art form was born in. In other words, if I want to learn Chinese Martial Arts to an expert level, I shall first learn enough Mandarin and then find a Martial Arts teacher who can also speak Chinese ( doesn't matter if he's not Chinese). That way loss of knowledge through generational transmission is at its minimum. If your teacher doesn't speak Chinese, you can only learn from him to a certain ceiling level, but not master level. 4. Old masters in China have a habit of not divulging training secrets even to long time Chinese students, let alone Caucasians who don't bother to learn their language first. 5. As an analogy ALL China students must first learn English before they are allowed to study Engineering in ANY Western University. Why do you think this is a mandatory PREREQUISITE ? The same principle applies to Martial Arts. Without learning Chinese first, one's martial art education is severly handicapped. And imagine some years later you try to teach this Martial art .... I shudder. You might as well be teaching ballet. You end up as Earle..... selling hundreds of poorly produced Videos and accepting the title " Great Western IMA expert" lauded on him by Westerners wh don't know which end of a chopstick to pick up. Ah you know so little of Taoists and Taoism. Suggest you re-read Sun Tzu ( Taoist Military strategist) and you might notice the advice: " Remain Hidden" "Know your opponent , but let him know nothing of you" But who can blame you. Your teacher didn't speak Chinese.
