empty hand

i really like what i have seen of the kali,silat,eskrima, arnis empty hand stuff.

how much time to you guys spend learning this stuff? im interested in taking the fma up but really cant be bothered to spend 4 years or however long it takes before you get to learn the empty hand as my main interested is the empty hand stuff.

 

Well that really depends on the style/system/group/individual you are training with. Some styles have no empty hands at all, some have borrowed from Ju-Jitsu, Karate, Boxing, and others have a transferance of empty hand skills that relate to the moves of the weapons they train with.

But for the most part what you are learning with the weapons can in one form or another be transfered to empty hand skills. But to really understand the use and applications of the empty hand skills in FMA you must first understand the weapons and how they are used.

But if you cant be bothered to wait I guess you will have to settle for something else.

Personally I feel that if it is of real value then it is worth waiting for.

Best regards

Pat

 

ok thanks for the reply. i was mostly interested in the blocks/cover up stuff as that looks pretty interesting but if its all from the artsd you mentioned i will go with them

 

I come from the Inosanto/Lacoste/Sulite lineage, and we started with empty hands. It's not always that way as Pat said, but can be depending on who you go to. PS: the FMA empty hands stuff is awesome.

 

Yeah if you can't bothered, probably best. Pat could have told you a lot about FMA empty hands, but who can be bothered ?

 

oh bother!

 

well i try and train for what i may encounter which is only sensible and as theres next to no chance of me getting into a fight with a skilled esckrimador and we both have double sticks whats the point on learning to do so? i can see how disarming someone with a knife or stick would be hand and i think i would like to learn the whole system but i can be bothered to spend 4 years learning how to duel basicelly with double sticks just to get to the empty hand stuff which im interested in.

 

Just do some reading mate, lots of info on this forum going back years

 

Well unfortunetly me thinks a little more research is needed. For if you think all we do is to learn how to duel with double sticks, you will be missing the whole point.

True you may not come up against a skilled Eskrimador on the street, but then again you may, after all not everyone is a nice person no matter what they do. But the lessons you learn by training the weapons to a higher degree will more than enhance your empty hand skills.

Yes there are one or two clubs that teach empty hands first and I even teach an empty hand class myself but to really understand the FMA Empty Hands a good degree of knowledge on how the weapons are used and the attributes it gives you are a must. We are not all about just stick bashing you know, the FMA goes far far deeper than that.

Good luck in your search I trust you will find what you are after if you look hard enough.

Best regards

Pat

 

well thats what this thread is for lol thanks pat you have been a great help and given me alot to think about

 

With regards to double stick for instance, take a look at the drill that most people know as 6 count sinawali. This particular drill is excellent for teaching you a very good entry with empty hands, it is also a empty hand good trapping drill. First you learn it with the sticks then you transfer it over to empty hand applications.

Usually when you see FMA demo's you see the weapons portion of the art simply because that is what looks good for demo's and sets the FMA apart from other arts and that way no one is confused as to what they are looking at.

Unfortunetly when people see these demos they automatically think 'Oh! You do that stick fighting thingy, not very practical for the street though is it?' Unfortunetly this is a misconception on the veiwers part and understandably so. A lot of what you are seeing is the core or back bone to the system, but people dont realise it has a whole skelleton and goes much deeper than simply twirling a few sticks around and look flashy.

You can concentrate soley on the empty hand applications but you will never really grasp it in it's entirety unless you really understand the weapons, how they work and what attributes in your empty hands they can and do immprove.

But when looking for a club that does do the FMA empty hands you will need to research properly as not all actually do train this side, some say they do but dont, some dont, some say they dont but do (they want you to get the basics of the weapons understanding first) and some explain it and let you train it in conjunction with the weapons from the word go.

I personally after a student has been with me only a couple of weeks and is starting to get a rudementary grasp of the weapons, I tend to show them how to apply the same skills to empty hand fighting, some other groups will do the same and some wont, it all depends on who you train with, but if it is the real empty hand skills your after I would say they go hand in hand with the weapons skills and take one part away you will never get the whole peice of the puzzle and will always be lacking in something.

Dont get me wrong, you may get good at doing one bit, but you will never get really good if you know what I mean. And like any skill, the more you train the better you understand it, the better you get.

It is a bit like having a pot on the stove that is boiling a good soup, you can see the soup is good, you can even smell that it must taste nice, but you wont get to try it for real as the pot has no handle. If you get my drift.

Patients is a virtue that is somewhat lacking in many Martial Arts students today, many seem to want it now but dont really want to work to get it, in todays fast food society they want a fast food martial arts too. Like I said, good things come to those who wait and even better things come to those who work hard to understand it.

Best regards

Pat

 

To be honest mate if you can't be bothered using the search function, don't expect a lot. However, if you do read up on the vast amount of information on FMA empty hands, people here will be glad to talk your ear off about it and answer any questions you have.

There's loads of good info on here and fmaforum (PI based), and as Pat said there's so much to FMA, some specialise in knife, some single stick, some a plethora of weapons, some sword and dagger,some EH, some take influence from CMA, some JMA, some not etc. There will be styles and systems in PI that we have never heard of...so the best bet is to get reading - I personally value the information I've learnt on forums far far higher than a google search, or even the vast majority of books available on FMA.

Good luck n keep reading!

 

you know, we should really review what's been posted before. i look back at the posts and marvel at the sheer volume of information (and tomfoolery) that has happened on these here forums.

i do a review once a year.

maybe you all should too.

 

well if everyone used the search function there would be no new posts, i have used the search functions but theres not a huge amount of info on the amount of empty hand training ect plus why re-animate a dead thread to ask a question?

 

Hi Blanker,

i understand where you are coming from. However I got into FMA, as I was attacked on the street. After learning FMA (from a good instructor) I can say it has saved my life more than once. Its not all about sticks, but the empty hand techniques come from weapons. You say you like what you see from FMA empty hands, but dont want to learn the weapons side of it. You simply cant do it that way round. All the foot work, trapping, locks, takedowns, limb destructions and empty hand strikes come from weapons. Plus working with Sticks speeds up your reactions and improves your hand speed. if you can spar with a stick at close range then punches appear slower! As with any martial art there is no "quick fix". Sure you can learn self defense fast, but those are basic skills. If you want to become more than that you need to stick at it (sorry I love that pun)...

Put it this way, Bakbakan Kali has a massive amount of weapons techniques that take years to master. But the empty hand applications are amazing. I teach them to some of my Pro MMA guys and they love it. BUT they have now started X training FMA now in order to master what I show them from the empty hand side.

A good instructor will tell you this and if you want pure empty hands he will point you in the direction of someone else. If you want more, then FMA is a complete system, you just need the dedication to see beyond the sticks...

I wish you well on your journey!

 

"well if everyone used the search function there would be no new posts, i have used the search functions but theres not a huge amount of info on the amount of empty hand training ect plus why re-animate a dead thread to ask a question?"

There is, I've read it ! - [map,fmaf,fmat,ED,FMADigest,stickfighter,defend] The problem wasn't reviving an old thread, it was your poor choice of words when asking the question and when responding

 

Sorry man was a bit harsh!

Here's some things to search for - Yaw-Yan, Sikaran, Gokosha, Tat Kun Tou, Mongoose, Pangamut, Panantukan.

Here's a great example of what Pat was talking about - [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWsxXlPW8LQ&feature=channel_page"]YouTube - MK 2009 2[/ame]

 

Yeah thats what I said

 

that vid is really good, cheers. im going to give arnis a go next week just to see what its all about. can anyone give me a break down of what to expect from an arnis class? i know every body probably has a different teaching method but i would like a general overview.