elbows & knees

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by franksv, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. I get the feeling you just look for a fight half the time. I'm not even sure how you're expecting me to explain it.

    We use it a lot in Kickboxing drills.
    You've never seen it in Kickboxing.
    When we're kickboxing we use it on the bags, pads.
    So erm... We use it in Kickboxing? Which was what my point was, when you asked where it was used?
     
  2. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    ive never seen them used in any kickboxing event we have been invited into,
    I have seen elbow and knee drills used more in tkd training than in kickboxing.
    But as ive only been doing it since i was nine im obviosly inexperinced
     
  3. Oh for Christ's sake.

    Congratulations. You've got lots of sarcasm. I'm sorry that we use a drill you've never seen before.

    Goodnight Madhoose.
     
  4. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    Well its obvious your taking this forum more seriously than i am lighten up kiddo.
     
  5. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    yep,girly works for me.
     
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I must remember to put me lippy on before breaking for 2nd Dan :D

    I think Madhoose' point was that elbows aren't normally allowed in kickboxing tournaments anymore than they normally are in TKD tournaments.

    And that what gets drilled in class is different to what gets used in sparring.

    Mitch
     
  7. No, you asked a question and I answered it, several times when the answer was obvious to begin with. And I have other things to be doing at 1 AM. Like sleeping.

    I've never been in a Kickboxing tournament. And I don't care much for TKD sparring anyway. Learning to use moves that are useful in real situations [as in when somebody is a foot away from you and a roundhouse kick with anything other than your shin is impossible.] is the reason I train.
     
  8. wynnema

    wynnema Valued Member

    you dont like TKD sparring or you dont like WTF Olympic style sparring??

    If you are only interested in learning an art for use in real life situations TKD is not the best choice.

    what belt level are you btw
     
  9. Taliar

    Taliar Train harder!

    Bold Added

    Well wouldn't it be better to go and train in a style were you did like the sparring and that you did think was effective. Continuing to train in an art you don't like seems fairly dumb to me. Perhaps you could train in Shaolin God-fu as you seem to think their "th3 d43dly".

    Back to the question.

    If you haven't got a big bag to train on then elbows can be trained on focus pads, either as a preset drill like jab cross elbow, or as a reaction within a round based drill where positioning the pad in a certain way during the round 'invites' the elbow.

    Doubled up focus pads can also be used to practise knees in the clinch if you are maintaining a resonable gap, with the person being clinched holding the pads in a suitable position or upward knees. You can also use a hogu to protect your middle, this is useful for a closer clinch and practising inward knees.
     
  10. I've said this before. But I don't expect you to have read it. But basically, GTI TKD is the core grading structure of our academy. However we cross-train and regularaly have instructors from other arts down. Last night we had Gojuryu Karate instructors teaching us Sticking hands, a short while ago we had Ju-Jitsu lessons and groundwork. We also work boxing, "street" fighting and basically anything else that my instrctor thinks we'll benefit from. TKD has lot to offer as a fighting art, however the TKD sparring [No hits below the waist, Padded up which dulls your sensitivity to movement and time out when one or both competitors hits the ground] is so far removed from real combat that I prefer to train other ways.

    My loyalty is to my instructor. Not to TKD. I do like the art. I just think you're nieve if you think because your a good sparrer you're equipped to deal with an actual fight. It's not realistic.

    And I don't train in Shaolin God-Fu, no. There isn't any round here. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Another Muay Thai Guy

    Another Muay Thai Guy Valued member

    You could pop up a question in the Thai boxing forum, it's an integral part of their training and I know for a fact that they use some kind of pads for knee drills.
     
  12. HwaRang

    HwaRang Just don't call me flower

    A drill I've been given a lot involves facing opponent with two round focus hand pads (smartie pads).
    Jab, cross, grasp nearest pad at head height and pull down as you throw back knee up to strike. Then hop backwards with a jumping front snap kick.
    Do each side etc...
     
  13. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    So the follow up to madhoose's point is that there's no reason you need to do kickboxing to train elbows/knees. TKD uses them in linework and drills (at least my TKD does) but not in sparring, exactly the same as your kickboxing training by the sound of it.

    Mitch
     
  14. See, you say that. But I've seen little of it. Now that could be because I'm not a Dan grade. Is that so? Yes we do elbows and knees in linework, however that's not proper training. When we're training knees and elbows in Ohdokwan or Kickboxing, we're doing work on the dummies and bags and practicing shifting forwards and back as we guard or strike with elbows and knees etc. or we tie our belts together so that when we spar we have to be close quarters.

    To me linework is a practice for getting the technique right. Using the techniques in sparring or on a target is your training for combat.
     
  15. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    I've been taught to use knees and elbows both in line work and against pads throughout the entire time I've done TKD, but then again I'm WTF and we all know we're all just about the sport.
     
  16. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    That's strange you should say that. I think you will find there are plenty of people that would disagree with you.

    When I took TKD, the head instructor (a 70 year old korean guy) owned a conveinience store next door. Some crackhead tried to rob the store with an icepick, and my instructor broke his nose and his wrist, and sent the guy running off like a little girl.

    He didn't teach many knee/elbow strikes, but I was only with him for 6 months as his class was too competition oriented.

    Best way to practice knees:

    [​IMG]

    You can clinch the chains and simulate knee shots to the body in the clinch. Have someone hold a hand pad and you can simulate snapping the head down for a knee shot.
     
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    No, I just think different Instructors focus on different things. But claiming that TKD doesn't use elbows in class and kickboxing does just doesn't stand up does it? There is no reason why TKD can't use them, they're part of the art; whether an Instructor chooses to drill them or not is another matter, and it doesn't have to be called "kickboxing" if elbows are being used.

    Your original post made it sound as if TKD doesn't use them and as has been demonstrated by a number of people here, that simply isn't the case.

    Please don't take this disrespectfully, that isn't my intention at all, but you should perhaps be a little more careful to qualify some of your statements. Your limited experience of TKD is not all TKD.

    Regards,
    Mitch
     
  18. Okay, well I wasn't saying that. What I was saying is there's a difference between training to use your elbows and knees [Which I do] and using elbows and knees in linework, which is really just learning a technique.

    Which was why I just asked whether it was just because I'm not a Dan grade I'm not doing it. :)
     
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    So you're saying that
    and doing bag work or padwork involving elbows or knees. You can't have meant kickboxing sparring as you admit you have no experience of it and it does not involve either elbows or knees.

    But Madhoose and I both teach elbows and knees as padwork (and in my case to all grades, I wouldn't want to speak for him), though I freely admit it's something I struggle with developing effective pad routines for as opposed to bag routines for.

    Now, here we may get to the meat of the issue:

    So, if GTI TKD does not include elbows/knees, you will only train them when crosstraining. Madhoose and I (TAGB TKD) both train elbows/knees regularly.

    So the difference is not TKD vs Kickboxing or any other art.

    The difference is not even TAGB vs GTI or any other syllabus as a syllabus is not 100% prescriptive on what an instructor teaches, it only forms a guideline.

    The real difference is that elbows/knees are part of TKD, and Madhoose and I both teach them. You learn elbows and it's described as part of kickboxing for whatever reason.

    That does not mean that elbows are lacking in TKD.

    It means that your Instructor chooses to call that part of his teaching by a different name, perhaps because it is outside the GTI syllabus.

    Whatever the reason, it is nothing to do with TKD lacking those techniques or being able to apply them.

    Mitch
     
  20. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    Well mitch im glad you are here coz you have a great way of putting a point accross, My scottish nature usualy shines thru with irony sarcasm and ridiclule.
     

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