Interesting stuff, thanks! That shredder, me like lots. Hm... I'll have to try that; I like to get the clinch and control the head, but I like the dynamism shown on the youtube clips.
Are you trying to catch the opponent's fist right on the end of your elbow each time? Because, while that's ideal, you might think about scissoring (gunting) the fist more. So your guiding hand comes downward while your elbow comes upward. If he's using a standard vertical fist, his fingers get caught by the elbow if your timing is perfect. But if it's off, you're still sandwiching his fingers between your guiding hand and some part of your forearm. And it's still not going to feel good. Again, you need to do the cost-benefit analysis for yourself. I'm not telling you that this is "the deadly." Just giving you another angle to look at (I hope). Stuart
Yeah, it's been a real help with the thought-out advice and the youtube clips. I was wanting too much from too little (destroy a man's fist with an elbow flick... too crazy!). It's going to be fun to play with the next few weeks--a lot of options and different interpretations.
Yes, but probably not from a jab! I know that these destructions can be... well... DESTRUCTIVE! I wear heavy boxing gloves, and when the training partner's elbow hits the sweet spot on a cross, I can still feel the spike through the padding!
A little late in the thread here, so apologies if this has been covered. Have trained with people of a similar lineage to Vu/Inosanto, so may have some insight. A hugely relevant concern with use of the tool you're describing off the jab is that it's often described as used receiving the punch. Meaning, timing and distance create the space needed for it to work against a jab, and then allowing their strike to come to you. Intercepting isn't a deal breaker, but as some folks have already mentioned, it is gonna make it a finer tool than may be useable at the time. These kind of ideas are (as all, I think) context-heavy with their appropriate use. So, more specifically... from a basic fighting stance, or cage, or fence, whatever your default position is at the time (again, context rears it's head), the elbow can be raised vertically or at other angles, while backing up to create necessary distance to "receive" (intercept) the attack. Using the free hand as a guide can be useful, again as mentioned before. In other contexts, slips, parries, stop hits and etc may be more appropriate tools. Often when training the tool not covering the idea of generalship, or the way the drill is fed, or the zeal to learn the tool makes us try to use it when it's not most appropriate.
if what youre refering to is 'defanging the snake' this concept is one that i have never cared for. as previously mentioned have also never seen it work during actual contact sessions. worse it seems to leave you open for attack especially when in a high guard. just use a stick in a general way. favor a single one and more grappling based applications. not to mention defense against disarms. what i know from some practice with other jkd students and observation is that way too often some people get artistic over practical. would advise checking with somebody that directly trains with inosanto at the present time or maybe the dog brothers. there are numerous instructors teaching stickfighting these days. from what i have seen the methods used by inosanto and dog bros. looks more realistic.
have you trained with anyone else? seems like you dismiss the other systems as fakes. have you ever tried old school? no armor live bastons? i have never seen anyone go stickgrappling as soon as the helmets come off.
what gives you the impression that i think any school not affiliated with the inosanto academy or dog brothers is fake? those are just two sources that seem highly recommended and offer quality training. maybe there are dozens of good fma systems out there. having not been a student of those it would not be feasable to make such a remark about thier quality. would you not agree there are good and bad schools of fma? has all the material that you have seen in other fma schools always been what should be expected? because i have never heard of any stlye that has been that capable of keeping standards high in every school. what little i have seen from the inosanto academy and from the dog brothers (the latter only from videos) looks realistic. by comparison i have also seen people get way too artistic. have you never seen as much? if you go oldschool and spar without protective gear how did you manage to keep form suffering numerous concussions and broken bones? this is only again based on what ive seen yet the dog brothers wear the protective gear for a good reason. about my favoring stickgrappling. would you say that it was impossible for someone to grab your stick after the first blow or maybe even before? are people just going to stand there and go toe to toe with you stickfighting or attempt to move in and stop you from hitting them? the multiple hit and never getting stopped doesnt sound that feasable. from the posts on this thread i gather not everyone is a big fan of the limb destruction technique. numerous issues were raised about the level of skill required and the risk/reward factor. maybe sometimes it does work. then again maybe the concept raises many questions for a good reason. has your training always been with other fma students or with those of many different styles and strategies?
Just wanna put my vote in for a couple things, and a couple clarifications. "Destructions", while "defanging the snake" might be called one, are a whole body of material in and of themselves. The risk/reward factor is of concern, which is why I emphasized the idea of generalship when using the tool, and looking at it from the perspective I was taught that sikos (elbow destructions) from the jab are based on "receiving" the punch, as opposed to trying to intercept it. Am a fan of "destructions" in a number of different contexts. Defanging "proper" with a tool does often indeed open up a line of attack (but not always). This specific idea (using a tool to intercept the hand of an opponent that also has one) is different from a siko (elbow destruction)- the latter of which (siko) is actually a tool that lends itself well to defense in a head cage.
