Ego in the martial arts

I could have started this thread in any section, however, most of my experience comes from tang Soo Do I started it here.

As I flip through the internet and look back over the years at the different masters, and black belts I have known in the martial arts, the one word that stands out to me is ego.
I see all teh different organizations that are formed, and know that they ar eformed out of ego. One person thinks they have the "better way" and starts their own organization. They then proceed to develop a website and post all of their accolades and achievements. I don't know how many times I have gone to a tournament or seminar and just cringed at the amount of bragging I hear and see there.

So, I have a question...is ego necessary to be great at the martial arts? Furthermore is ego necessary to get recognition? How many great masters have come before us, and we don't know their names because they simply taught the art and lived the art, but didn't talk about what they did? We hear about this one or that one, and if you ask who their instructor was, many times people do not know. Why? This person of great acclaim surely had a great instructor. Yet, perhaps that instructor is overlooked because he/she doesn't blow their horn.

Thoughts?

 

That's two questions Answer: Definite NO, and to a degree YES...

Those that shout loudest may not be the best, but finding the best may be difficult if they are quietly going about their own life and business.

I've got a general feeling that ego probably gets in the way of being great at anything. No doubt you can be good, but ego tends to imply a lack of self-analysis - and if you don't see your own faults (we all have them), then you can't correct them.

It's the classic old line - those of you who think you are perfect are very annoying to those of us who are.

I would rather find a modest man who knows far more than me and is willing to pass on that knowledge, then someone who says "I'm the best" but cannot or will not show it.

(I know which description fits my instructor - his knowledge is vast (IMHO) and he says he is still learning)

 

Wow, very well said. I have never been able to put words to it, but this is exactly how I see it.

 

I'd say the real question should be, is recogniton really necessary? That's really kind of a double whammy and if one is truly great, then they don't have an inflated ego. They're content with themself and their ability and feel no need to flaunt it. Ego, to me, is simply a sign that a person is insecure.

 

You don't need ego if you have a big ... brain.

 

I think tooting your own horn is good under certain circumstances. For example, using community service to get your dojang name out on TV is great, but it's far from egotistical. It's better to do things that demonstrate how excellent of a person you are, rather than say how excellent of a person you are.

 

Glad to be of service

My wife keeps bringing me home college assignments and saying "Can you read this question to me so that I understand it".

 

Well G,

I don't know if I would call it ego, but one ussally needs a ton of confidense, something you tend to not lack. If you are going to be great, you need to know that you are good enough to be great at some point. I think very few greats don't know that they are. Look at Wallace, he knew he was great, does that mean he has an ego, I don't know, but for sure he had plenty of confidense.

Pete

 

Moved from TSD to General Discussion.

Old thread but could bring forth some decent discussion.

 

Being an instructor myself (and still having an instructor), I have been accused by some of having a bit of an ego problem or coming off as brash and cocky.
It's neither.
It is confidence in what I can do,have done and will do.
And a lot of people find confidence very threatening,so they have to call it a bad name to make themselves feel better about their own insecurities.
I even know of 1 or 2 world champions who honestly believe if you haven't won some major accolades,you have nothing to offer them,so they started their own thing just to be above the rest.

Now THAT is an ego problem.

When it comes down to it, a proper person of any ilk,athlete,scholar,academic,etc, can accept and sometimes share, in their deficiencies and are willing to learn from anyone regardless of their background and experience.
Anyone who can't step down off their pedestal long enough to do that; they are the ones with serious ego/insecurity issues.

 

Fear / Respect the quiet man in the corner, and ignore the loud man in the center

 

Demonisation of ego is a new age 'sin'. We all have that thing that the phrase is meant to point to - our sense of self, who we are, etc. Without ego we often wouldn't even be driven to achieve anything - even basic survival.

What we use 'ego' to mean now, used to be called vanity.

So, yeah - vanity of granting oneself, or using, titles. Vanity of having followers. Vanity of pretending to be a great fighter. Vanity of self apotheosis. All is vanity - isn't that in some book some where??

Martial arts is a mirror world, where pretty much everything that pretends to be a virtue is really a vice, while everything true and genuinely noble is spat on.

 

I agree about the need for Ego, and I also understand the distinction between Ego and Vanity. I will also add that despite how much folks can hunger for recognition, adulation, regard and acknowlegement, the fact is that acceptance by others or assessment by a standard that they may think productive is highly over-rated. In my own experience I have found that things I accomplished I did so with damn little help from, and often despite, others. A good deal of the time I found myself explaining or justifying my goals, often with little or no impact on the other person's reasoning. It took a while, but pretty soon I stopped believing that there is an identified place at the trough for everyone and that a good deal of what we get done in this Life is through self-motivation and a lot of perspiration. I'll help another along if I think it will make the World better, but I sure don't expect it in return. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

We should not confuse ego with arrogance. Arrogance, to me, implies I am better than you for whatever reason. Ego means I believe I can be better than you and should try to do that.
If you have no ego, it means you don't care how you perform relative to others and therefore you have no real motivation to better yourself. I'll admit, I have an ego when it comes to martial arts. I want to try to be better than the guy next to me in every area. But I also admire people who can do what I cannot. Arrogant people don't.
I really do think a certain amount of ego is necessary to succeed in martial arts if you really want to be good, because if you have no ego you wouldn't care. And the martial arts are filled with arrogant people.

 

Let's look at it simply.

Some social systems naturally lend themselves to a process of corruption via vanity. Martial arts groups are one of the worst, often having a pyramid social scheme, with a leader, underlings, a group belief that is based on progress 'up' the pyramid; a group belief in the skills, level and often, amusingly, humility and wisdom of the leader.

These kinds of social systems are like machines, all focussing the energy of worship on to the person at the top of the pyramid. And in turn, each member of the group is mostly motivated by vanity - by the desire to move up the pyramid.

As opposed to, those people who are motivated by genuine desire, or need, to learn martial arts.

I don't know how it is in other martial arts, but every time a low level martial artist claims to represent your art, its reputation sinks a little lower - which has all but destroyed the reputation of CMA in the UK. So those people - who are usually the most mouthy in claiming to be the 'real deal' - actually care zero about your martial art, and the fact that they are killing its reputation - and care only, solely, about themselves and what they can screw out of it.

Almost everything in popular martial arts is vanity - only a tiny percentage really want the true knowledge, and of those that do, I think their perfectly justified righteous indignation is often called 'arrogance' by those frauds who are threateneded by the truth.

In terms of what is confidence, arrogance and vanity - just ask yourself who people try to get respect and kudos from - their students, other frauds, or from those genuine few seekers.

 

Replace ego with honesty and sincerity. If you honestly deserve respect or admiration..it will come. It is when you actively seek/demand it that it becomes ego.

regards koyo

 

Just to add to what FQ posted i think this has as much to do with money. Being the person at the top of the pyramid scheme means you get the revenue as well as a boost to your ego.

 

ya know when i was growing up doing martial arts and the like, i had this real thing about people ego's not that i had one but the fact that most people who did were generally better. but back then i had a massive lack of confidence (massive lack of confidence, like apologizing after a good technique, got so bad i would get pressups for it!) years on from now i have my sensei saying that i could beat most of those people easily. and eventually it wasn't ego that grew confidence, virtues and respect for my senseis. it'll happen too everyone after enough training at some point.

 

I guess you have to define what a great martial artist is, personally I think it's the people who have learned to fight well. Measure it in terms of competition, look at top boxers, UFC fighters and Olympic athletes and they all tend to have big ego's. They get upset when someone is better than them and they train harder to change that. I don't think it's a bad thing, it just tends to intimidate quieter people.

 

There is a difference between a big ego and confidence.

Big ego = Person brags about how “bad” they are.

Confidence = Person knows how they have skill and doesn’t need to tell anyone about it.

Big ego = loses at something and blames other people for cheating, being lucky or anything or anyone but themselves.

Confidence = Hates to lose but when it happens knows there was something they need to do to get better.

Big ego = Others know that they are not nearly as “bad” as they believe themselves to be. (Clean version) Alligator mouth with a bunny rabbit rear end to back it up. Big fish in small pond.

Confidence = Others know the skill they have.

Big ego = Person doesn’t admit they have a big ego and believes they are just that good.

Confidence = See above.