Dumog!

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by ninjaman111, Jan 30, 2007.

  1. ninjaman111

    ninjaman111 Valued Member


    ya they originally did pancration and greco roman wrestling naked, but its ok i have a gi.. ;)

    thanks for the info guys, im gonna have to find some dumog around me, my dojo's sister school does eskrima, i guess ill try that.
     
  2. Linguo

    Linguo Valued Member

    Dumog's goal of ending a fight as soon as possible is no different than the goals of judo,sambo, bjj etc. All those grappling arts you mentioned all want to end a conflict as soon as possible, but when two people are actively engaged in combat, a quick finish is pretty difficult. Rushing to finish a submission or takedown can be a big mistake with some harsh consequences.

    Similarly, I imagine that someone who is competent with a stick wouldn't make the mistake of wildly swinging his or her weapon just to make the hit. It's a quick way to earn a stick hickey or two.
     
  3. ninjaman111

    ninjaman111 Valued Member

    so dumog would probably be a great complement to my sport grappling arts..

    how many of you found this to be the case
     
  4. shootodog

    shootodog restless native


    the mumbakki isn't a movie. he's a real person. he taught me boltong and other neat stuff. the gt knows him as daniel.
     
  5. Limbas

    Limbas Valued Member

    Actually,there was a pinoy movie titled Mumbaki. The movie was about an Igorot priest. Can't remember the male lead but I can still "see" Angel Aquino who did topless in the film.
     
  6. burungkol

    burungkol Team Yaw-Yan

    too bad i missed the last RBSD(#2) session. :cry:
     
  7. chenstyle44

    chenstyle44 Valued Member

    haribon dumog

    hi,
    My instructor was first introduced to dumog in the Visayas when he was eight years old and has developed his family system of grappling from translating motions of the blade to an effective grappling art.
    he can be reached via www.rutanoestokada.com.
    As far as internet based/sourced information he is always open to sharing and discussing dumog.
    Regards,
    Gordon :D
     
  8. BigRed389

    BigRed389 Valued Member

    I had some limited exposure to Dumog taught from the PTK school.

    One of the interesting things I learned about it is the positions are most definitely NOT homoerotic/gay.
    Obviously, I don't think that was the primary reason, but as Tim pointed out, they don't have time to sit around and game for position. So the takedowns all emphasized the ability to avoid getting tangled up on the ground(ie takedown, couple of nasty shots in, disengage).

    I also learned a lot of things based off of head control, which was something really new to me, as other grappling arts I've done(BJJ, wrestling-freestyle/Greco) don't do that from the standing position.

    There were also some really neat "twists" that really messed with an opponent's equilibrium while staying "fluid"...essentially you're still striking, not "grappling". Any holds were also very well placed to avoid shoots, etc. Only problem was that some would be difficult to execute on a tough fighter...similar to getting someone's head down in a Thai clinch...easier said than done against a resisting opponent.

    I've always been curious how well some of the Dumog I've seen would translate in MMA from a position such as the Thai clinch. Some of the head twist TDs seem like they could be pretty nasty, and still legal.
     
  9. Cuchulain82

    Cuchulain82 Custodia Legis

    Stateside any PT Kali school worth a spit should have pretty solid dumog available. We did it relatively early in training, so other schools may hold off until later.

    The guys at Minnessota Martial Arts have published a pamphlet about dumog actually. A friend got it for me- maybe you can find one on their website?
     
  10. Viking

    Viking Valued Member

    http://realdefense.org/pekiti_dumpag.html

    An institute that teach pekiti dumpag. Interesting read.

    "Dumpag is truly the"Third Art". Not just striking and not just grappling but a unique art that blends Striking & Grappling together in different ways not seen before.Dumpag destroys the striker and devastates the grappler. In a way it is "Anti Grappling" as it Shuts Down the Shoot, Stops all kinds of Throws & Take-Downs and Dominates the Clinch.

    At Range Dumpag delivers powerful destructions to the Boxers attacks that mess up his game and allow you opportunities to attack.
    The weapons of Dumpag are developed with a rigerous and heavy conditioning. Slaps, Fists, Forearms, Elbows, Kicks, Knees & Head Butts are all used in fluid attacks. Dumpag develops a unique Sensitivity, Footwork and Base that allow the fighter to flow evenly between striking & grappling.
    Filipino Dumpag Offers Truly A Unique Technology And Different Way Of Fighting That Defeats The Best Thai Boxer, Wrestler Or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt. "
     
  11. Cuchulain82

    Cuchulain82 Custodia Legis

    You know, I agree with that, but only in a certain respect because the goals of dumog are so different than the goals of BJJ or MT. When I was learning dumog, it was always with the intent of running away. If you were using a dumog technique it was because you were in a real tight spot- usually we assumed it was a situation where you were outmanned, unarmed, or otherwise in a life threatening situation. Our goal was to extricate ourselves from that situation.

    The same simply isn't true of the MT and (limited) grappling I've done. They're ring sports, and they assume a whole host of different realites that effect technique- beginning with something as simple as a level fighting area. The goal is to win, not flee, and you have to make calculated choices about how/when/if to take a hit. It is simply a different set of goals.
     
  12. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    dumpag is not dumog though it has similar basis. dumpag as how the grand tuhon envisions it is dumog plus.
     
  13. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    The evasion of the art is good. The idea of self defense is in it and evasion is fine, trickery is good also.
    Dumong is a good one to have in your bag of tricks, waza is good.


    In Mark Wiley's book about the Filipino culture and the arts of it, if you knew all of the various arts you would be truly an expert. I really enjoy these arts.
    Much is primitive, but it is whence we came. :cool:

    Gary
     
  14. hkd_instructor

    hkd_instructor Valued Member

    Hi folks,

    Just got done working out with a PFS CEI. He was showing me some basic dumog - pushing and pulling the arm after making the entrance. Cool stuff, I couldn't get my balance back once he started pushing or pulling my arm and body around.

    We haven't gotten to the neck clinch control yet, but I'm pretty familiar with it given my previous experience. I'm really liking this PFS stuff, it's an entirely new ballgame to my traditional background in Korean arts. Anyone in the San Jose area? Shoot me a PM!

    Best,

    Stieger
     
  15. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Have you tried this when standing in front of someone? When they grab your arm and pull you forward just settle to the ground by bending your legs then come up very fast into them, allowing them to assist you with your motion and it will be they that go off balance ;)

    You will gain the advantage, you can take an angle and evade, or attack :D

    Gary
     
  16. silentwarrior

    silentwarrior Valued Member

    I haven't seen a whole lot of Dumog but from what I have heard it seems like a lot of small joint manipulations and stick locks. I'm personally not much of a fan of small joint manipulation as it is very low percentage, but whats being described here seems a bit different.

    "Sorry but that's a load of pap.
    If everyone could strike the streets would be teaming with champion strikers and KO artists."

    I disagree to some extent. I think that what Royce meant was that everyone can throw a punch, weather be it a bad or good punch, it will still be a punch and will still probably hurt to some extent. unlike elbow escape from mount which anyone who is not a grappler has no idea how to do.

    "They do alot of the same locks that you see in bjj but with a little different move. They are more geared towards breaking bones than making you tap."

    I do not understand. How is making someone tap any different then being able to break your bones. If I have you an an arm bar and were fighting im not gonna wait until you tap, im gonna break your arm. Same thing with any other submission.

    "also learned a lot of things based off of head control, which was something really new to me, as other grappling arts I've done(BJJ, wrestling-freestyle/Greco) don't do that from the standing position."

    This is interesting. I know that when grappling on the ground head control is of extreme in importance and is very stressed in BJJ. Could you explain what head control your talking about from standing. The common no gi Judo hold also emphasizes a great deal on head control as your hand is on the back of the opponents head and you use it to off balance him. I also beleive that when standing head control is a very hard thing to get, because anyone who knows a little about grappling isn't going to have a posture that leads itself kindly to this, unless they go in for a shoot and fail.

    I would be interested to see how Dumog works disengagements from grappling. This is something that i think about a lot but I believe other grappling arts can still lend itself to. I mean sure If I have someone in my guard it is going to be hard to disengage and flee, however if I have someone in mount, couple punches to the face and im runnin, and I think it was Rickson who said you only want to be on your back when sleeping and ...I wont say the other but im sure we can all guess. Also Those who said nevr to go to the ground especially with multiple opponents, well it may not be much of a choice, and if there is multiple opponents your probably screwed weather or not you go to the ground or remain standing.

    I think its really interesting to see the how throws translate from empty hands to stick/blade. i think some lend themselves more kindly to this such as a hip throw or working for the back/ the stick can be used as a good leverage point. However other throws such as a double leg would be near impossable to do with a stick nor would one really want to get that low and risk a head shot from the opponent. Also i still think using the stick for control can work but is a tricky thing to do. Just today in class we were working from the clinch with our sticks in hand and my partner got double under hooks and grab his own stick around my back for leverage. this didn't really work in his favor as i had more room to move, then if he had just locked his hands up, so i was able to leg trip him into mount.

    Lasly I think that throws become even more dangerous with a blade, I mean getting a classic judo position with a stick is much more reasonable then trying it with a knife (ouch blade in the kidneys) and thus I see reasons why there are a lot of small joint manipulation in FMA because your so focused on not getting Cut by the weapon.

    -SW
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2007
  17. Bambi

    Bambi Valued Member

    There is no such thing as no-gi judo so Im not sure how anything can be common in it? :confused:
     
  18. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    actually there is a form of "no gi judo" that exists. it's part of "police judo" and "combatives". (sorry for the o.t.)
     
  19. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I think that this is the part of dumog/dumpag that really differs from sports grappling/mma, the attention to 360 degree awareness. The dumog/street grappling that I have been taught tends to sacrifice really tight positions for awareness and the ability to disengage. This isn't a slight (to say it sacrifices something) as no one thing can be supreme in all arenas, you have to focus in on your specific goal and work towards that.

    In the case of sports grappling/mma the aim is to sub/ko the other guy in a one on one match fight, with dumog/dumpag the aim is to go home to my family.

    Also, a big difference is the use (of what I term) 'percussive locks', the violent 'on/off' motion of trying to get locks on that is banned in sports grappling (I recently had to give a BJJ training partner a bollocking for that :woo: ).
     
  20. silentwarrior

    silentwarrior Valued Member

    "There is no such thing as no-gi judo so Im not sure how anything can be common in it?"

    Seriously? Perhaps I should have phrased my words differently. What I meant was that when doing Judo throws With out a gi instead of grabbing the lapel you grab the back of the opponents head. By saying "No gi judo" I simply meant Judo with out a gi, which surely does exist and I thought my statement would be obvious as to what I meant. I guess not. Feel free to ask more quiestions if you still can't understand. :)


    "Also, a big difference is the use (of what I term) 'percussive locks', the violent 'on/off' motion of trying to get locks on that is banned in sports grappling"

    Interesting. Are you taklking about small joint manipulation? because this would seem to lend itself more to the 'percussiveness' i think your talking about rather then the gross motor movements in BJJ.
     

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