Double Wrists Control

What will you do if your opponent just moves in and uses his

- left hand to grab on your right wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your right arm),
- right hand to grab on your left wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your left arm),
- leading leg to jam your leading leg (this can prevent your from kicking him with your leading leg)?

When this happens to you, you want to break away his grips, because you want to rotate your arms to against his thumb instead of his 4 fingers, your

- right arm can only rotate counter-clockwise,
- left arm can only rotate clockwise,

When you do that, your "front door" will completely open for his attack. This is a very aggressive strategy. Your opponent just moves in and takes away your striking ability (right punch, left punch, leading leg kick) and force you to play his grappling game no matter you like it or not. What will be your reaction?

 

I headbutt him. Hard.

 

Build, size, and environment?
First reaction is to counter with sleeve grips of my own but that's what I've been working on in judo randori anyway

 

Changed my mind. Need to know how big the guy is

 

By grabbing both of your wrists and moving in close enough to jam your leg (however that works) your opponent has tied himself up as much as he's tied you up.

Aside from the headbutting already mentioned, you can throw knees into him, and escaping from a wrist grab isn't actually all that hard.

People who train in Jiu Jitsu or Hapkido can take the extra step of thanking the attacker for feeding into every technique they know in the way they first learned them.

 

Reach for the double collar tie, most likely.

 

If your opponent is

- shorter than you, you attack his upper body.
- taller than you, you attack his lower body.

This "entering strategy" should work on both situations. You can even use the wrestling "single leg" to take your opponent down if he is bigger and taller than you.

I'm going to make some clips this coming weekend. Here is an example of "leading leg jams leading leg".

 

Usually I'll work on under hooks or threaten with wrist locks.
I like the double sleeve grip in the jacket to set up double shoulder throws but without the sleeves I don't feel like I have many options to attack from it.

 

When your

- right hand tries to grab on your opponent's left wrist, if he doesn't want you to do so, he will rotate his left arm counter-clockwise (from your view). You can then slide your right arm under his left shoulder and obtain the "under hook" that you are looking for.
- left hand tries to grab on your opponent's right wrist, if he doesn't want you to do so, he will rotate his right arm clockwise (from your view). You can then reverse your left arm and move counter-clockwise (from your view) and obtain the "arm wrap" that you are looking for.

So if you

- can obtain "double wrists control", you will pull yourself into your opponent and obtain a "head lock arm wrap" on him.
- can't obtain "double wrists control", you will obtain a "under hook arm wrap" on him.

In both cases, you will get something that you want from him.

In the following clip. you can see that the transaction from "wrist grip" into "under hook" is very nature.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTMuo6E3jVA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTMuo6E3jVA[/ame]

 

i think the rational answer (that naively assumes i would have full control of my mental faculties and time to put them to use adequately) would be that i try to step in the direction from which he is grabbing me, hopefully slightly disrupting his ability to punch me with HIS other hand (since it's a cross-grab), and then i improvise . additionally, if his lead leg is blocking mine: if he's mirroring my stance (one orthodox, the other southpaw), technically he's wide-open for a rear leg kick to the groin or the inside of his lead leg (and since he's grabbing me, i don't need to worry about balance as much as usual and can kick faster with less regard for it). if for some reason his stance is opposite mine (ie both are orthodox or both are southpaw), his blocking my leg with his means he's side-on, and i might be able to step behind him and try to take his back, at least if i'm picturing this properly.

but of course this all depends on seeing it coming, reacting on time, and reacting appropriately and successfully, which are the collective hard parts of the issue.

 

I think he's got both of your arms and isn't using a cross-grab (left hand on right wrist and vice versa).

 

It's hard to answer a 'what would you do if...' question unless you regularly drill for that specific scenario.

Off the top of my head, what I'd probably do in the situation described would be to twist my shoulders sharply round through ninety degrees and slam my shoulder into the opponent's chest. This might not work if he was a lot bigger and stronger than me - although it's still possible that it might take him by surprise if he was expecting me to just try to pull my arms back to try to break his grip.

Of course, the other possibility is that I'd just freeze. :cry:

 

my god that's a horrible scenario !!!

actually , when your right hand can rotate counter-clockwise , you can lift it up and punch or elbow his jaw ( kinda like a hook punch ) , same can be said about left arm rotating clockwise . you still have your other leg to kick and/or knee the guy wherever you want ( although it may not be the best idea , he can control you by the wrists ) .
as for what i would do , it depends . if the guy's obviously stronger , faster and tougher than me , has weapons and/or friends , i'll give him my wallet !!! but if i have an advantage , i'll do what i explained before .

 

I think I would spit in the guys face, headbutt or coil one of his hand up to my face to bite it. Perhaps all three.

Seriously though, what are you doing getting caught in that situation in the first place? I understand the benefits of hypothetical situations, I trained in Kenpo for years. But I believe time is much better spent drilling to avoid getting into situations like this to start with, rather than getting out of them. Furthermore, what is your opponent's intent? Why is he grabbing your wrists and blocking your leg?

Regards,

Dave

 

If someone grabs both your wrists then you'd presumably be a bit of a dope. Or asleep.

But sometimes interesting ideas can come out of discussions of quite far-fetched scenarios.

 

I know hypothetical discussion can be fun and interesting. Especially when people from different systems bounces principles off eachother. And I don't think this scenario is that far-fetched, it could happen and it's good to be able to get out of it. But it shouldn't happen is all I'm saying. And that seems a bit obvious now that I say it

 

Where not sudden,
then
Pushing Hands (or similar) deals with this extensively
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHYlTRhSmkU"]Practical Tai Chi Chan - YouTube[/ame]
else
where sudden
general techniques like 'As if shutting a door' from Taichi or Ude-kiminage from Aikido
provide machinery for this type of situation

 

I imagined what I might do and then thought that it was a little bit like the 'Flying Oblique' posture in Taiji. You probably wouldn't get quite as much counter-balancing thrust from the arms, but the key element seesm to be the turning of the waist, because esentially you're pitting the strength of your core against the strength of the opponent's arms. (Of course, I'm visuallising the opponent basically standing there holding you by the wrists, rather than specifically 'doing' something, if that makes sense.)

 

In training, static double wrist immobilisation is ok, and can lead to quite a bit of control whereby it is extremely difficult to find movement for a countering head-butt.

More realistic training with double wrists restraints necessitates more movement, and acts as a premise for a follow-up punch/strike or headbut i.e. double wrist/forearm restraint followed by release of one hand, to strike and/or head but.

To develop defense against this kind of attack does indeed require waist movement, but more importantly (IMHO) necessitates whole body movement for partial evasion (you are on the inside so full evasion is not possible) including footwork, to effect some kind of angle to get under and round the restraining arms, to execute a control/takedown/lock/joint attack, which in turn buys you time to a) either escape or b) muller the opponent.

 

Take a step back, pull, and knee/kick him in the groin.