Does Taiji require a structured belief system??

Hi guys,
It was about a year ago that I had a discussion with my first teacher, shortly before we stopped training together. The discussion centred around the direction of my training at that time.
My teacher said that, in his opinion, I needed some kind of structured belief system in order to progress further in Taiji Quan, giving examples of Buddhism, Daoism, Christianity etc. This is something that I have disagreed with, my opinion being that it is not necessary to have some kind of faith in order to become skilled in TJQ.

What are the opinions of the TJQ (and Bagua/Hsing I) guys here? Do you think a student gains direct benefit to their TJQ/Bagua/Hsing I practice by believing in some kind of religion?

Best wishes to all,

BT

 

Direct benefit as to something tangible? I'd have a hard time with that one. Actually, I'd turn it around and say that your art can benefit you as part of your spiritual practice.

 

I would agree that TC will benefit your spiritual practice, but not everyone needs a label and rules to define it.

 

BT,
Good question! I personally feel, as others have mentioned, that TCC can help with your spiritual path. I don't however feel you need a structured belief system. I think TCC can help guide you towards a structured belief system b/c it does help with spiritual development.

I am kind of guessing here, but it seems to me that your instructor was mentioning this b/c he/she felt that if you were to have a structured belief system, this may increase your own faith in yourself. Similar to you having a specific goal in mind. Grandmaster Jou Tsung Hua often mentioned that students of TCC should set out both long term (I want to be a great master have many students and learn of Tao/god/buddha etc.) goals and short term (I want to learn to root better). Seems to me maybe your instructor was trying to get you to look at "the bigger picture."

Just curious, how was your practice during this time when you spoke with your instructor??? Was it faltering? Were you questioning your practice, frustrated? Just wondering, good topic though!

 

Interesting thoughts, TQ

The older clip of my form in the Taiji Form Demo thread was from the time I was training with my first teacher. At the time, I wasn't sure about Taiji Quan. I didn't feel like my training was going anywhere. It was only after I stopped training with him, and started to learn by myself that things started to really fall into place. And, since finding my current teacher a few months ago, my practice is really advancing. But, I still don't have any kind of religion/belief system that I follow.

 

I don't beleive that it is necessary to have a recognised religious or belief system in place to advance in TaiJiQuan.

What is required is maturity, maturity, maturity, and a sense of spirituality, a code of ethics by which you lead your life.

 

A willingness to learn and do it properly is all that is needed... each person makes of it what they will and fits it into their own ideals or beliefs. Did your teacher think there was a wrong belief structure when approaching Taiji? And what about belief in Taiji itself, would that be classed as a belief structure (or belief in a structure)?

 

Every martial art needs a belief sytem. Belief in yourself and your training.

regards koyo

 

I don't think that taijiquan necessitates any structured metaphysical belief system. Nor does it inherently do anything for your spiritual growth.

 

Well, you probably have the faith that you will eventually have skillz ... heh, that is 'some kind of faith'.

I wish they had soundy's as well as smiley's because a good ole rip roaring fart would fit really well right about now .

 

In the old days, so my teacher told me, any master of any note would know for sure that somewhere, someone was walking across China to have a fight with them, at any one time. The belief that they are getting nearer every day was a very good focus for training!

 

I am posting my viewpoint here because many other people have. It is not intended to cause a row. Anyone who wishes to avoid argument should refrain from starting one.

For me it isn't really about whether Taiji needs a structured belief system, but about whether people do. I think they do, so as to avoid being their own moral compasses and basically making up the rules as they go along, to suit themselves.

I think there is an argument for martial artists needing a structured belief system, so they use their fighting skills in a benevolent way. I also believe (as I'm sure you can imagine) that a belief system that rejects magic, ritual, superstition and selfishness is important because these are all things that entangle and imprison minds, in my view.

To be completely honest, I don't think we should learn martial arts for ourselves at all, but for the sake of others - those we aim to protect and anyone we may have to fight / restrain. By striving for mastery of conflict we become more able to use precisely the right amount and most appropriate kind of force for any given situation.

 

This is my main reason for training, couldn't of said it better myself thanks JK.

 

I think that the structured belief system should be Christianity, Seventh Day Adventist. It should replace the voo doo demonistic qualities found in eastern religions, such as zen. These demonistic ways must be expunged from the earth so the truth in Jesus Christ can be found by all.

To be completely honest, eastern structured belief systems, such as taoism are pagan. These pagan ways are actually the devils way to bring people away from their true moral compass which is only found in Jesus Christ. That's what I mean when I say that individuals are their own moral compass. They practice that which is not taught in the bible. Paganism and witchcraft. They speculate.

P.S. I say Seventh Day Adventist, because Jesus Christ was a vegetarian. I must say that I claim to love animals. I'm not a hypocrite that claims to love animals and also loves to eat them.

 

Well, do cows have a structured belief system, or sheep? Or birds, or whales or rats?

Anyway, it's not actually possible for a person to be their own moral compass int hat sense, simply because the "I" in the individual is built through social language, social concepts. For example, concepts liek good and evil weren't invented by you - so you can't really ever use them without the influence of your society - whether to be evil or to be good. See?

However, your fear of people being their own moral compass stems from a sense that humans are inherently rotten. Why religious people hate humans, well - you know - you have all the knowledge.

In taiji, it is essential that people begin to trust themselves, and be their own compass. No one who doesn't gets real level skill.

In most cases, martial arts styles ARE structured belief systems - what we call "physical knowledge" - but also involving a lot of conceptual stuff - what we think about martial arts.

JK, you wither train people to trust themselves, or train them to swallow.

Your beliefs don't reject selfishness.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

jnanasakti - I know your post was a dig at me, but it was very witty.

 

Groan, same old "my way is the only way to Real Mastery" BS.

 

And the answer to the question is err......... no

 

Is that a qualification? Can you put it after your name... Fire Quan, Real Mastery BS.

 

I second that, one does need to set strong goals. This means long term, and short term, and those that are mid term as well. Learn how to define these, they help keep you focused.

While I have never done martial arts for the protection of others, it is part of every nations military/police force. I guess that would depend on what your job is. I have bounced but never studied so I could protect someone. I have a strong belief, that if most people are pushed to the need to defend they will do just that. Every person I believe has the ability naturally to defend themselves.