Do you ever see somebody who is a certain grade in another MA and think "crikey, I'd better steer clear of them!")? For instance, the idea of a Judoka getting a throw on me and splattering me onto the floor disturbs me more than a fellow Karateka landing one on me and breaking a bone. Am I being irrational?
I dunno... there are a fair few people I know that don't practice any martial arts and have zero interest in doing so... yet they can readily clear a room in short order. I wouldn't fancy having to scrap with them at all... I prefer to think of it as a good sixth sense.
There will always be style vs. style arguments. Does a taekwondo BB (who got it with 2/3 years training) compare to a BJJ BB (who got it with 10/15 years training)? Some martial arts just have a more fearsome reputation than others-Mauy Thai compared against Tai Chi for instance. MR G3
I dont know. I don't really think it about anyone who studies a primarily stand up art as the type of training we do means I'm not too bothered about how much power they have, but like you say, I don't want any burley blokes getting their hands on me and throwing me to the floor; I'd get mullered!
not really. i mean, i've met people who have a big ego in martial arts (usually the black belt level students), or just are being trained more on having an ego and claiming they got the best art than their actual martial art training over all.
no people trained in MA are usually people I am not worried about. The good ones don't have an ego and won't start anything.
agreed, i'm more worried about the drunk in the bar that may go crazy...i saw a guy get into an aurgument with another guy and then the thing died down, one of them went to take a drink out of his pint, the other guy came up in front of him and mashed the glass into his mouth....the guy needed reconstructive surgery to save his face, he was cut up beyond reconition, the guy who did it is still in jail awaiting trail, got charged with aggrevated assault
Yup I was a bit nervous in my Hapkido class when the new "Judo brown belt" was my partner when we learned throws for the first time, for me anyway. He was skilled enough to throw me without hurting me. I was sorry for him...my bad technique. I think that once your experienced in a certain type of pain er, uh, technique, you are used to it. In practice.
Its always kind of strange to see someone from another style be your partner, or to train with someone from another style. I met a guy in the local gym who was rolling around on the ground, and I was intrigued so i talked to him. Turns out he was a 7th dan in koryu jujutsu and we trained a bit and he beat the living hell out of me. And then I've seen people who look really scary and start hitting the bag in the gym, or start "wrestling" with their friends and they suck.... horribly. I've sparred with friends who have never trained in anything before... jesus... it was bad. IMO, you'd be VERY VERY suprised as to how good you really are compared to people who dont train in anything, and I dont care what style you take. I never thought I was that great, but compared to some people its just pathetic.
IMO bad MA training takes away your natural ability to fight, good MA training enhances it. A good judoka or rugby player will take out many badly trained karateka I've met but a good 'hitter' and well trained stand up grappler trained in self defence still has the best chance in the street.
I tend to find that person's build and especially the size of their arms and fists intimidates me more than any particular grade or art. Being a scrawny vegetarian I tend to find big muscular types with ham-fists scarier than a 2nd dan in anything who is roughly my build.
Moosey... what's to be scared of... with those massive moose antlers. One goring charge with those and the bicep boys are out of the running.
Good MA Bad MA ? Hi Steve, All in all it's pretty subjective. What do you consider good MA and what do you consider bad ? Can you be more explicit ? As someone who has practised karate and jujutsu for 30 years I still consider myself a student and beginner, ( In fact, this was the definition of Su Ha Ri given to me by one of my primary Sensei's many years ago, who, also happened to be one of your early karate instructors ). Did you consider his MA good or bad ? At the time, and I'm talking late 70's, early 80's, the kumite in this dojo verged on the lethal, yet it also boasted some of the top sport karate fighters in the country. For the last dozen years or so, I have followed a parallel path to people like Sensei's Gavin Mulholland and Iain Abernethey and made my study of karate and jujutsu into a vehicle for fighting AND realistic application. Whilst I partly agree with some of the statements made by your partner in crime, Denis, that 60 - 70 % of the karate practised in the UK is crap, there are still reservoirs of karate out there, that never gets into the MA press, because the people who practise and study it are more concerned with realistic and authentic karatejutsu, ( The term for the practise, I do ), than self promotion and self agrandisement. At the wrong end of 40, my training and technique and my physique would put many self promoted 7 th dans or martial omnipotent doormen to shame. Send me your e - mail addy and I'll give you my website so you can see I'm not talking out of my rear end. I still regularly train and spar / fight with my instructor who was one of your Sensei's most talented and skilled instructors. Out of curiosity, when was the last time you or Denis got on the mats for full on, NHB type sparring with a skilled opponent who wasn't one of your students ? ( For me, it was a couple of days ago ). The purpose of the above statement is not to blow my own trumpet, but to emphasize, personally, I try to train twice as hard as the twenty somethings just to keep up with them. ( No offense is meant to anyone, some people don't lift weights in their personal training......... I do, as I personally believe strength and body conditioning is a crucial element of an effective and realistic martial art ). When you look at someone who is barrel shaped and several stone overweight, it's not a realistic assumption to arrive at, that basically, they are not training. I'm the world's laziest, but if I can do it, then many of the so called 7,8,9,10 th dans that grace the forums and martial arts mags should be able to walk the walk and not just talk. Essentially, the purpose of this post is not to offend anyone, ( although to some, I guess, it might ), but to stimulate opinions and conversation. And the point, I guess, is to remind folk that making blanket statements can sometimes be like letting a snake free from a bag, sometimes it can return to bite you in the ass. Peace and harmony to everyone, even the Sokes......... Jaae.
What's funny though is some of those same guys might find you scary to deal with too My strength actually intimidates a lot of the people I cross-train with, even though some of them can strike much harder than I can. My Judoka friend and I finally began some light MMA sparring with each other, and though he is very good when we spar with normal Judo rules, when striking was added he was extremely overcautious and if he got pegged coming in he'd be a lot less aggressive. If you're not used to something, it's going to intimidate you. That's why the best way to solve that problem, is to train in it as well If Judo intimidates you, try some Judo classes. If punches intimidate you, try out a boxing ring. The more you know about it, the less intimidating it will be IMO.
Good point koto ryu. I have a thing about judoka as well! I practice jj but the few blackbelt judoka I know are tough as nails and pretty big. All that focus on throwing and slamming each other into the ground Would not want to be on the receiving end of a good judoka defending themselves for real.
Hi Jaae You've gone to great lengths to not give your identity there and the website link in your bio doesn't work so I don't know who you are, you don't name our 'mutual' instructors so I'm all a bit lost there I'm afraid. If your birthdate is correct (mine is) you'll see that there is considerable difference between our ages so it kind of negates quite a few of your comparisons. My email is in my bio and I'm always happy to hear from anyone. But I'll try to answer the points that I can. I don't think that there are good or bad martial arts - only people. I'm glad that you're still fit and healthy and out there on the mats, at 56 yrs old I don't 'compete' anymore and because of some of the long term injuries from those stupid early years have to take care. But I do still train every day and teach in classes every evening except Saturday (I'm often teaching courses then). You don't name your current instructor/s so I can't comment on them either but if you are doing courses with Gavin and Iain - that's good. I'd say look after your health and fitness - when you're young you don't think about how those injuries will plague you when you're older. Exercise a bit of care along with any machismo.
Hi Steve, Thanks for your reply. You have elucidated on the underlying theme in my post, good MA bad MA most succinctly. Generally, it is down to the ability of the Sensei / instructor and how he teaches and puts it across, AND what CONTENT he is putting across. However, I disagree with you on the statement there are no good or bad martial arts, I think there are quite a few around, alas. Most traditional asian or western martial arts that have have traceable linages and are fight / self defence orientated are usually good bets, but, there are people out there with two or three years training in sport karate kick boxing, ( whatever that is ? ), or some similar concoction teaching ' karate ' to children and making a lot of money in the process. I'm of the opinion, that generally, karate taught in small groups with instructors of many years experience and of traceable linages will nearly always have a better quality content than karate taught en mass when/where the focus is on student numbers generation, 'read ' money generation. For me, personally, if one's karate doesn't include contact sparring, grappling, wrestling, dirty fighting, against fairly non compliant partners, body and strength conditioning, then it's only a poor representation of karate and as long as it isn't billed or advertised as anything else, other than recreational or family type ' karate ' then that's fine, but in many cases it isn't. My own personal opinion is, for what it's worth, that apart from many of the Okinawan based karate groups, groups like the BKK, KUGB,ESKA,IOGKF ( Goju ),Ishinryu,Shidokan,Seidokan and some Korean groups, the karate practised in the UK is poor. The quality control within these groups, is high, but the Mcdojo ratio outside of them is even higher.( Don't even start me on governing bodies, as not all the cowboys are outside the tent ). As usual, your reply / replies are tempered with wisdom and respect. With regard to the issue of age within training, of course, one should always train within one's own limitations and the idea is for the training of whatever you do, is, to increase one's physical longevity, ( not to cripple you ), but we should never use age as an excuse. These days, the only time I don't ache is either when I'm training or laughing, which luckily, are two of my favourite pastimes. ( My primary Sensei is in his mid - fifties, although I study a number of arts with various incredibly talented instructors.... one lifetime just isn't enough, lol ). Good MA ? Bad MA ? for me, it has to be most of the above, it has to be pressure tested, effective, physically strenous, realistic in it's application and use, although ironically, generally, it isn't commercial as many folk want the ' quick fix ' and there are plenty out there who will supply it............and all they have to do is sign on the dotted line for the auto bank debit. This, although not the only reason, is one of the key reasons for such a large decline in terms of quality in karate and why generally, karate is percieved as unrealistic and unworkable by the wider public. my website is www.ashikarate.co.uk. My mob is on it. My profile/bio is on it, I have nothing to hide, ( Although my Wu form is poor, I don't profess to be an authority on it, although I'm training with someone who is ! ), but generally, I stand by everything in the text or the video gallery, ( Although I'm always seeking to improve, even at this stage of the game ). I don't teach for profit. I will train with anybody as long as they have something to teach me and are not BS, ( In fact I'm lucky enough to be training on the next Geoff Thompson course on July 8 th in coventry after securing a piece of goldust called a seminar ticket ! apart from Geoff Thompson, I might be the eldest one there !? ). Again, just to reiterate my original point, I widely agree with you on some aspects of martial arts in general and karate in particular, namely that, much of what's out there is rubbish, but some of it isn't. Blanket statements are, by their very nature, unrepresentative of the subject matter. I have seen a lot of good karate and a hell of a lot of bad...........................unfortunately the bad seems to be winning and a lot of it finding it's way into the MA press. ( At this point, someone will point out to me that it's all subjective and I can feel the fangs in my ass as I type ).As always, no personal offence is meant to anyone and the purpose of the post is to stimulate conversation and opinion. Best wishes to Steve and all fellow martial artists. Thought for today: Are all Soke's just drunken old sailors ? Jaae
Thanks for that Jaae - it's nice to know who you're talking to. Your website looks very professional and it's good to have clips to look at. It's good that you're studying both karate and taiji, (my main two pursuits) and I used to do a lot of weight training in the past as well. I guess the MA are a bit like swimming, many people like to get in the pool and splash around but few want to become top class swimmers. The MA 'market' is largely created around those that want to 'splash around' so we will only ever exist in small corners - but I can accept that, if anyone wants to find us they'll look hard enough. It's also important that we continue to educate people as to what our MA are all about. I don't think that all good MA are in the old major groups, many of those have just stood still and only really cater for 'Japanese karate traditionalists' even you have had to look outside to complement what you do. There are many good, tough, hard, skilled MMA practitioners around that have never done a kata or taken a grading. There is also a lot of skilled silat and kung fu guys around. As you're in the Midlands, take the opportunity to train with Russell Stutely when he's around there and Marko Vujnic does some excellent groundwork (he's in Coventry) we also had Herrol 'Bomber' Graham down recently, he's based in Sheffield. Good luck on Geoff's course.
Hi Steve, Thank you for your gracious comments and also for the people you have recommended ! If they are quality martial artists, then at some point our paths will cross as I am always seeking to ' sharpen my sword ', via the most skilled swordmsith. Although A voracious reader of all literature, not just the martial variety, it can be pleasantly suprising to discover the measure of someone when engaging in a one to one dialogue however brief the interchange. I think and appreciate where you are coming from and I hope you have gleaned an insight into my perspective. With regard to the various associations I mentioned in a previous post, generally, although they don't have all the answers, ( who does...... ? ), their standards are pretty high and uniform and their background and history is researchable and transparent. I am in total agreement with you in that at some point you have to step outside the box and taste the ' flavours ' and see the ' colours ' of different arts. However, myself and many colleagues agree that if you haven't trained in a genuine martial art for several years and given yourself, not only a solid base art to work from and time and practice to fully understand the principles of the partcular art you are studying from, then how can you go on to learn and eventually master other arts. ( Maybe others disagree entirely with this viewpoint and it will be interesting if it provokes some response and some thought provoking discussion ). I particularly like your anology in relation to swimming and the martial arts. However, for those who want to splash around in the pool, they should be supervised by experienced swimmers who have both life saving and trained observational skills. In the martial arts this frequently doesn't happen. Changing tack slightly, would be very suprised if even the most traditional of people haven't taken on board some if not all of the lessons being proven with the advent of the explosion of mma, K1, etc, etc. I know it's popular in some parts of the M A press and various forums to ' bash ' the Japanese, ( and some of them need bashing...... ), but nevertheless, they were pioneers and part of yours and mine as well as many others, for want of a better word, heritage. One should train hard and look deep into their core art before they look away or elsewhere, even if they come to a later conclusion that the base art had to many short comings. ( Better wrap up here, I'm meandering................... ) A final thought to yourself and fellow mappers, what do you think the state of ' karate ' would be in now, if the Okinawans had come over in the sixties instead of the Japanese ? No offence of any kind is intended intentionally and best wishes to all genuine fellow martial art brothers.....................and sisters !
