Do you enjoy DOMS?

Do you enjoy the muscle pain after hard training? I love it, makes me feel like I've worked them well and when they heal they will be stronger. I really enjoy the pain. Is something wrong with me? Or is this common?

 

They are a good indicator of the effort that you have put in, but as my DOMS usually present 2 days after the initial exercise, they make it difficult to alternate my training days - For example, if I did day 1 on legs, day 2 on cardio, and day 3 on legs again, the DOMS from day 1 would hit me on the 3rdday, making for a really painful leg session. This is why I rotate between upper body days, cardio days and leg days (with rest days mixed in of course)

Travess

 

Nope. I think it's an indicator of getting the programming wrong - too much, too soon, not enough rest, inadequate nutrition, etc. It's entirely possible to follow a progressive plan without getting DOMS.

 

I have to admit that I do rather enjoy the day after a really heavy session when everything is tight and feels a bit achey. I don't enjoy the day after an epic session when I curl up into a ball of pain and mew for ibuprofen. As I get older the line between heavy and epic is getting finer.

 

This. I train (weights, sprints, jumps, throws etc) to get better, not just tired or sore...

I thought that DOMS isn't even a good indicator of muscle damage (temporary loss of strength is a better indicator of muscle damage, and muscle damage is theorised to be one of the mechanisms for hypertrophy, along with mechanical tension and metabolic stress...)

 

That's so much nonsense in one post I don't know where to begin.

You can get DOMS without doing too much. You can get them by hardly doing anything.

No amount of rest would prevent DOMS.

No amount of nutrition would prevent DOMS.

If on a weight training routine and you're not getting DOMS, you're progressing way too slow or just maintaining.

 

You get temporary loss of strength from DOMS.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness

How do you do a new workout or exercise and not get DOMS?

Even professional athletes when going to. Different fields or trying something new get doms. Because their muscles aren't geared for those exercises.

 

Right, and then in your very next post you quote a Wiki article that supports the notions of gradual increases in intensity and adequate nutrition as safeguards against post-exercise soreness.

The idea that you have to get DOMS to progress is laughable. Hell, I pride myself on how little my clients get DOMS and continue to progress - one of the reasons I have enough of them to coach for a living.

 

Show me where I said that you have to get DOMS to progress? Oh wait, I didn't. Regardless of how little DOMS your clients get doesn't change the fact that most of your post was nonsense.

I dint know what you coach, if it's pilates I wouldn't expect them to get DOMS. I could also point out that there are more bad coaches who do it for a living than there are Mcdojos not saying you are one, but I'm saying the fact that you had to mention that you earn enough for a living from coaching means nothing to this conversation.

 

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/doms-the-good-the-bad-and-what-it-really-means-to-your-training

Snip:
"So no, you don’t need to experience muscle soreness after a training session to build muscle, and you probably shouldn’t rely on it as an accurate indicator of productiveness."

There's probably a large element of variation with each individual too.

If you enjoy DOMS that's fine by me mate, I'm just not certain that it means you've had a productive training session. Unless the goal was to produce soreness, in which case it was productive!

 

I never said that you need DOMS to progress. I said the feeling makes me feel I have. Even though I know it isn't true. I was referring to why I think I enjoy the pain. And if others also enjoy it.

Not once did I say you need DOMS to progress.

Point of thread wasn't the benefit or non benefits of DOMS. Point was am I alone in enjoying the feeling.

 

Here:

You're pretty much saying only programmes that cause DOMS are time effective or effective at all.

If you actually think rest (sleep, rest between sets and active recovery) and nutrition before, during and after a workout has no influence on DOMS, it's going to be extremely difficult to take much of anything you say seriously. Especially when you post links to articles that contradict your preceding statements.

My specialism is sports injury rehabilitation, but I'm also a certified fitness trainer with a focus on strength and conditioning geared towards taekwondo.

If my clients got DOMS nearly as much as you seem to be insisting they should, I'd have no clients and wouldn't be able to do what I do for a living. Just so happens they all more or less progress at a predictably steady rate without the need to endure DOMS (referring to healthy i.e. injury-free people here).

Like Harry said, if DOMS gives you a tingling sensation in your loins, crack on. Just don't be mistaken thinking it's good or necessary for progress.

 

Okay, layperson here, but isn't this subjective? An individual's (this being the key word) internal reaction at an external stimuli? I.e. Some people my susceptible than others.

(This very base comparison should highlight my level of understanding) Isn't one person being able to lift 'X' amount, suffering very little DOMs, whilst another lifting 'Y' and suffering greatly, on a par to one person having 4 pints and waking the next day with a stinking hangover, compared to another having 9 pints, and still feeling as right as rain the morning after? An individual's internal reaction at an external stimuli?

From experience (mostly with the latter) doesn't diet/sleep/lifestyle a play a big part in this? Lactic acid helps recreate Adenosine Triphosphate (I had to look this up!) "A complex chemical compound formed with the energy released from food and stored in all cells - The system produces ATP copiously and is the prime energy source during endurance activities" - Does this not mean that Diet plays a bigger part than over exertion, where DOM's are concerned? (I know my diet is shocking!!!)

Genuinely interested...

Regards

Travess

 

I guess I read "makes me feel like I've worked them well and when they heal they will be stronger" to mean that you thought the soreness actually meant you'd worked your muscles well and that they'd heal stronger afterwards. But you actually meant that you feel that you have progressed even though you know it's not true.

OK, cool, glad that's cleared up

Also, we three aren't the only people who have/will read this thread...

 

Again I didn't say that you have to get DOMS to progress. I have yet to see a strength training routine where you progress adequately without any DOMS. I'm sure if I was increasing my squat by half a kilo every month I wouldn't get any DOMS. Am I progressing? Sure. It's injury and pain free. But it's. Not at a rate I like.

I posted a wiki link. Where did it contradict my statement?
The soreness is felt most strongly 24 to 72 hours after the exercise.[1][2]:63 It is thought to be caused by eccentric (lengthening) exercise, which causes microtrauma to the muscle fibers. After such exercise, the muscle adapts rapidly to prevent muscle damage, and thereby soreness, if the exercise is repeated.[1][2]:76

Delayed onset muscle soreness is one symptom of exercise-induced muscle damage. The other is acute muscle soreness, which appears during and immediately after exercise.

What I've said and what we know.
Delayed onset muscle soreness can be reduced or prevented by gradually increasing the intensity of a new exercise program,[11]:112 thereby taking advantage of the repeated-bout effect.

Soreness can theoretically be avoided by limiting exercise to concentric and isometric contractions.[11]:112 But eccentric contractions in some muscles are normally unavoidable during exercise, especially when muscles are fatigued.

Again not contradicting anything I've said.

I didn't say that rest sleep nutrition don't have an affect DOMS. Where did you get that from? I said rest and sleep and nutrition won't stop you from getting DOMS. There's a huge difference between minimising and not having any at all. Which is what your first post claimed.

Injury rehab. So not to do with DOMS.

Fitness and strength for tkd again not to do with DOMS.

Tkd was my first art and as with any TMA I would only expect DOMS when practicing a new technique. Once you're used to it, I wouldn't expect. It again. It's not as progressive as strength training or changing fields. Go from your Tkd to rowing, rockrock. Climbing and show me how you don't get DOMS with your rest nutrition sleep.

I never insisted your clients get DOMS like I said I don't know what you coach. Injury rehab? I don't expect them to be getting DOMS from that. Fitness and strength geared towards Tkd? I don't know what your training entails. If strength geared for Tkd means 20kg Squats and kettle bell swings I don't expect them to get DOMS.

Once again I never said it's necessary to progress, just that your first post was nonsense. And it still is no matter how much you try to switch it to things I didn't claim or say.

 

You seem to be convinced that any significant increase in load will induce DOMS. It won't. It's entirely possible to add weight each workout without causing DOMS if all factors are considered and planned for properly.

You said my initial post was full of nonsense - the one where I said it's entirely possible to follow a progressive plan without getting DOMS.

Let me clarify here, because it doesn't appear to be sinking in - I'm talking about progression (i.e. adding weight, increasing reps etc) in a reasonable time frame - increasing intensity within a couple of workouts at most.

Here's where you contradict yourself with the Wiki article:

And then this:

When you said my post about rest/nutrition/progression done properly can prevent DOMS was full of nonsense.

Considering there are as many studies supporting inadequate rest and nutrition as contributing factors to DOMS as there are studies claiming eccentric contraction is the sole cause, it's entirely plausible to say, "Yes, actually, done right they can stop you getting DOMS."

Yes. Because it is possible. Hence why I threw the bit in about having clients who experience it first hand.

Wrong.

The aim of a thorough injury treatment programme is to restore normal range and movement. That involves a comprehensive weight training regimen, which as you have alluded to yourself, can be a cause of DOMS. People recovering from injury are also more susceptible to post-exercise soreness due to greater than average weakness resulting from extensive lay-offs.

Wrong again.

My programme of strength and conditioning for taekwondo relies heavily on big lifts: squats, deadlifts, power cleans.

You're focusing too much on rest/nutrition to the point you seem blind to the most important point I've been making here: steady progression in load and volume is the biggest influencing factor to preventing DOMS.

So yes, I could go from taekwondo to rock climbing and not get DOMS. How? I'd plan my progression from very easy to advanced over a certain length of time, using my reaction to rock climbing sessions as feedback when deciding whether to increase/decrease what I'm doing and how much. I'd also undertake a pre-conditioning programne (probably consisting of a mix of grip training, static holds, and other gym-based exercises to simulate the demands of rock climbing).

Pre-screening/prehab/pre-conditioning is one of the reasons my clients/athletes hardly ever/never get DOMS - they don't jump right into it, nor do they carelessly ramp up their load or volume. This way they can spend more time training and less time whinging over outbreaks of DOMS.

I said DOMS is a sign you're doing it wrong and isn't necessary to progress. You said that's nonsense, so... yeah. You did bud.

 

DOMs freakin' suck.

If you keep training in a way that creates DOMS, you're not training to your full potential or the total volume/frequency you can train at. I always shoot for one time of DOMs on given body parts that lasts about 5 days cause' it's the initial soreness from doing nothing for so long, and then that's generally it unless I decide to go crazy.

There are times where I intentionally train in a way that I know I'm going to get sore, but that's more focused on mental toughness than it is getting stronger. Those types of workouts have never made me physically stronger or bigger, just tougher.

Oh, and Van Zandt, what are you gonna' do next man? Try to teach us about TKD? Jeeeeeezzzzzz

 

Has anyone else noticed that one's 'climatic response' seems so much more whole-body intense when one has sore muscles? - particularly if the muscles in question are in the back and posterior of the legs.

Yeah, the DOMS's ...

 

I say

Has anyone experienced more intense whole-body orgasm when they've sore muscles - particularly in the back and back of the le-

Hullo??