Do those of you here feel that JKD is the most "perfect" system?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Saved_in_Blood, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    After reading this thread and giving many hours of thought I have determined that JKD is the perfect only because Hannibal trains in it.

    :)
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yes, it's always going to be a dynamic situation outside of club/competition sparring setup (which can still be dynamic, but much less so - you and your one opponent know exactly where each other are coming from).

    However, I would disagree that stance is immaterial in those situations. It is the relative position of yourself and others that dictates what you can do, and where you are vulnerable.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Lead hooks are phenomenal - one of my favorite exponents was a boxer from Manc called Ensley Bingham who I watched years ago.
     
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Agreed!

    Thanks for the heads-up. There are some nice lead hooks from "Bingo" scattered throughout this video:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGFZ8qIa48"]'Bingo' The Ensley Bingham Story - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Check the one he did on Mcccreath...around the 25:00 mark
     
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    26'10" gives a great slo-mo!
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I remember that fight when it happened! My brother used to hand out at Phoenix camp quite a lot and got to know many of the fighters
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    We're getting a bit off topic here. So I may split this shortly. But I don't see how it's easier to protect your vitals side on. As you say, it depends on what you train. But, by definition, I don't believe this is true. It limits the involvement your "alive hand" (rear hand, in many cases) can take on in defense and countering, because it's further away.

    Additionally, my top priority is to get outside position. That is, to be on the backside of his longer weapon. The assumption always being that he's got another shorter weapon I haven't seen yet. Even if that weapon just turns out to be a solid boxing cross. So my goal is to zone to the outside, which is often achieved using reverse triangle footwork. And that footwork is hampered by a side-on stance.

    Also bearing in mind that the opponent is likely thinking something very similar about me and my armaments, he's likely zoning to my outside too, in an effort to take my back. I'm less prepared to prevent that in a pronounced side-on stance. Finally, if I'm not ruling out a blend of wrestling and weaponry, a side-on stance leaves me less prepared to sprawl because it leaves a single leg more exposed.

    To bring this back to topic a bit, I think that speaks to JKD's strengths and weaknesses. Clearly my approach to weapon combat is different from yours, David. And, as my dimwitted ex-boss used to say, "the truth is in the pudding." If we can each make our approaches work, then they're valid approaches. Some JKD-inspired people are going to latch onto the more fencing-influenced stances and footwork. Others are going to gravitate toward the more squared influences of FMA, boxing, and wrestling.

    Both could be supported by various disparate JKD sources. Making it very difficult to define JKD as a set system at all.
     
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    By stance do you mean entire body posture, which leg is leading or which arm is leading? Those who have trained with me know that for 'pre-fight' I favour a left leg lead with left hand high, but a right arm extended in front of the left.
     
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Very well put.

    I hear what you're saying about zoning. I actually find beginning completely front-on gives both most options to you, and least forewarning to your opponent. But I would never advocate teaching that to a beginner, as it leaves far too many openings. I would rather they covered and back-pedalled until escape was possible, or a relatively safe opening for attack or counter presented itself.
     
  11. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    I like the side stance, for the other guy. As a wrestler it means no sprawl at all.
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yes, entire body posture.

    45° lead?
     
  13. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter


    Similar to this.
     

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  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Interesting.

    Is this in striking range?

    Looks pretty open to me.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Back pedalling can be dangerous, as it could be seen as a sign of weakness and also allows the opponent/aggressor to step forward into you.

    Obviously this is different if you're in a classroom/martial art/boxing scenario.

    Years ago a colleague an I were on a customer liaison type course as part of our job. The instructor advocated taking a step back if a customer became aggressive.
    I argued that he was wrong and ignored his advice.
    My colleague took his advice onboard and ended up getting punched in the face while on site one day.
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    In my particular branch those who back peddle are grouped under the collective noun "lunch"
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Within the very same contract I was confronted by a fairly robust guy and stayed my ground, guarded and aware, but allowing him to say his bit.

    It ended with me inside his house having a cup of tea.

    I never teach taking a passive step backwards.
     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sure, but you don't always have a choice.

    Sometimes it's better to regroup than go down in a blaze of glory, tactically speaking.

    And a fighting retreat is better than just covering and/or parrying. And using all three dimensions in avoidance is better than just going straight back...

    But sometimes people storm in, and don't give you the option for a second or two.
     
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about.

    I'm talking about facing an overwhelming attack.

    Which can be quite often when you're a beginner.
     
  20. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    It's about 40cm to 5m from the other person. Anything touches my lead hand - be it a body or a hand, and my real lead usually makes contact.

    We adopted this as we found that whether you led with the left or the right, if you extended your leading hand in a self defence scenario, it was frequently either touching the aggressor's body or was slapped down before employment. In the resulting par-second of confusion the aggressors attack usually connected before the defender could switch to a cross. As such we trialled a negotiating position whereby the real lead hand stayed close to the head to defend against the most likely form of attack, while the other hand acted as an antenna. The 'guard' is not supposed to look like a guard - we're trying to talk the situation down.

    Is it open? Not for the majority of HAOV it's not.

    Here's a picture of a guest instructor having his extended lead slapped down before a punch connected with his face.
     

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