Do these moves feature in judo or are they confined to mma and bjj?

Discussion in 'Judo' started by u6s68, May 31, 2014.

  1. u6s68

    u6s68 Valued Member

    Mount/guard positioning

    Rear naked, triangle and guillotine chokes.

    Just trying to see if judo will meet my submission as well as grappling needs. :Alien:
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You don't see guillotine's much anymore because they are basically banned in competition because of the pressure exerted on the spine. Similarly, you can't pull down on the head in a triangle, but you can exert the same pressure by pulling on your shin.

    Rear naked chokes don't tend to be used that much because it is easier to use the jacket, but there's nothing stopping you from using it.
  3. u6s68

    u6s68 Valued Member

    Does judo put you at a disadvantage if you want to train mma in the future. Someone mentioned you have to eliminate throws that expose your back for instance
  4. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Ronda Rousey seems to be doing just fine. Karo Parisyan, Hector Lombard etc etc all make it work.

    Some throws work better for MMA than others. I saw someone (possibly Lombard) launch someone with a Sasae Tsurikomi ashi a couple of months ago - so hot.
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    A good Judo black belt normally equates to a new blue belt in terms of submissions and controlling positions.
  6. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    There seems to be a few Judo/MMA/BJJ clubs now that run Judo for MMA/no-gi Judo seminars/classes. It might be worth keeping your eyes open for these.
  7. MaxSmith

    MaxSmith Valued Member

    I think, like every 'pure' sport, you'll have to adapt aspects of it to MMA but having the solid foundation in and of itself can be invaluable.

    Few people are going to box out of a traditional boxing stance, but a boxing foundation is pretty much necessary for good striking.

    Pure wrestlers are a bit too easy to give up submissions, but having a wrestling base allows a fighter to dictate where the fight takes place (standing or ground).

    Same in many ways for judo. Great sweeps, throws, and counter throws, great awareness on the ground, and great base to prevent take downs. Sure a classic ouchi geri might put you in someone's guard when you'd rather pass (not that it has to, and there are plenty of examples where it doesn't) and sometimes in Judo you commit so much to getting the ippon that the aftermath puts you in a bad spot on the ground, but it doesn't take a lot to adjust.

    I did judo before BJJ and found right away I needed to adjust my strategy since the match really only begins when it hits the ground, but having a stronger judo game usually allows me to gain a dominant position from the get go whenever we start standing.

    Wasn't hard to adjust.
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    As long as you know how to replace your body spinning into a 90 degree sharp angle turn, also if you know how to deal with your opponent's free waist wrapping arm, you can reduce your risk to the minimum.

    In the following clip, he has no risk to expose his back to his opponent because his

    - "under hook" has eliminated his opponent's left arm function (such as pick him up, drag him down, spin him in circle, ...).
    - "leg spring" has force his opponent into a bow-arrow stance which can't be used for pulling his opponent backward.

    He might leave his opponent's right arm free, but from the angle that he entered, his opponent's right arm could not do anything to him.

    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  9. u6s68

    u6s68 Valued Member

    Is that a Judo demo? I thought there were no strikes or do they teach you how to defend strikes?
  10. u6s68

    u6s68 Valued Member

    Which discipline if you had to choose one do you find is most beneficial to self defense on the street?
  11. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    There's one in central Manchester this coming Sunday (8th) with a GB Olympian if anyone is interested.
  12. MaxSmith

    MaxSmith Valued Member

    Even though I currently favor BJJ I'd probably say Judo. The ne waza isn't as intricate but for SD purposes doesn't really need to be.

    But to be completely honest I'm not really a big proponent of learning martial arts for self defense. Outside of a one on one, unarmed confrontation, the returns on your training diminish at an exponential rate...

    Despite what the LARPer crowd will tell you.
  13. u6s68

    u6s68 Valued Member

    How could I best learn to defend myself against attackers though? Someone once took a swing at me in a pub for instance.

    My local club has said that they don't focus much on strike defence, if at all. They said the club is more geared towards sport. I don't know what to make of that?
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Why did the guy take a swing at you?
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    We are talking about whether the following statement is true or not.

    "You have to eliminate throws that expose your back".

    I just provide an "counter example".

    When you turn your back into your opponent, your opponent can hold on your waist and

    - pick you up and throw you behind his shoulder,
    - pull you back down,
    - push you forward and down,
    - spin with you and drag you down.

    Your opponent's waist wrapping arm is very powerful. If you can prevent your opponent's arm from wrapping around your waist, you won't have those problems.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Many MA schools don't teach "defense" until in much later training stage.

    Should you learn "hip throw" first, or should you learn "hip throw counter" first? How can you learn "anti-grappling" if you don't lean "grappling" first?
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  17. MaxSmith

    MaxSmith Valued Member

    Geared towards sport is the best way to go. You'll spend lots of time trying to throw and submit people trying not to be thrown and submitted, and vice versa.

    That's going to match the aggression and unpredictable nature of a real conflict a lot more closely than pre scripted moves where you know what attack is coming and your training partner lets you execute your technique.

    You want to lean how do deal with someone taking a swing at you, add in some boxing...

    Or you could be one of the best pound for pound boxers on the planet and it doesn't help at all as you and some rapper are throwing chairs at each other in a late night Vegas burger joint.
  18. u6s68

    u6s68 Valued Member

    Accidentally bumped into him and he spilt some of his drink.
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Judo is great, but on average, has a much less developed ground game to bjj, awesome pins though.

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