I remember my teacher telling me that when he did stance training they often did it on poles, which I believe is called "Meihua-zhuang" training. I also remember reading here that they did this at Wah Lum. So, my question is, is there anyway to safely approximate this training in your backyard without actually putting stakes in the ground? I read someone saying they practiced standing on V-8 cans, though I'm not sure whether they meant they were rooted to the ground or not. It seems very difficult, albeit not impossible to stand on cans if they're free-standing, but then you can't shift to other stances and have to set them back up if you lose your balance. I considered actually attaching cans to the bottoms of a pair of shoes, but that sounds kind of like an ankle injury waiting to happen. So, for anyone who's done this kind of training, could you give me a more detailed explanation of how you do it and possibly some suggestions on how to do it at home? I'm assuming the point is to train the achilles tendons, calves and quads by standing only on the balls of the feet, thereby increasing speed and nimbleness. Do you actually do Tantui with all the stance shifting on cans/poles, or do you just use them to hold static stances? Once you can do it on the balls of your feet do you bother still doing stance training/Tantui with the heels down, or do you think that you can get the full workout using just the balls of the feet? Thanks in advance.
instead of poles.. use bricks. Lay them on their sides to begin with, then eventually when your root develops, stand them on their ends. Bagua uses this to great effect. I'm sure it'll work just nicely for every other style. Balance is balance, and a root is a root. And if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a punch...
Good idea! Seems obvious now that I think about it. I'll practice on bricks for nimbleness and balance, but keep practicing on the ground for rooting as well.
Bricks are a good way to go, we used them in Dr. Yangs' school. At the Wah Lum school I trained at I helped my sifu set up some poles behind our school. We cut fence posts in half and put them in the ground so they were sticking up 2-3 feet. Also inside he had a large 1" thick wooden base with 5 4x4's screwed to it. One on each corner and one in the center. At Another school I went to the teacher had several medium sized coffee cans that he had filled with cement to give them a little weight and stability. They're all good ideas.
You want to train in Meihuazhuang techniques, talk to a Meihuazhuang practitioner... Skip the bricks, it's not the same thing at all, take coffee cans or paint cans/buckets, fill them with concrete, and there you go. You're only about a foot off the ground so it won't be to bad if you fall, and if you decide you like that training then there are ways to create larger posts without putting them in the ground. Technically you use 5 posts done in the shape of a Plum Flower(one in the center and one in each corner). Some more info. on our training... PLUM BLOSSOM POST TRAINING Plum Blossom post training develops balance, strength, endurance, speed, accuracy, and awareness. Post training requires that a practitioner have a solid base as well as having a solid root, their muscles, tendons, ligaments, bones, feet, ankles, knees, and hips need to be strong and well conditioned for the type of training they will begin when it comes to the post training, otherwise there is the possibility of injury and further health problems down the line. Plum Blossom post training begins by placing five posts in the pattern of a plum flower, though other geometric patterns are used, with the beginning height starting out at around six inches and progressing to around nine feet in height for the advanced training levels, the width of the posts will become less as a practitioner advances in skill as well. The idea of the post training is to further develop the skills one has achieved on the ground and advance them to new levels by moving off the ground to varied heights, on a variety of post widths, and on posts that start off solidly braced into the ground and eventually are loosened to give some mobility to the posts, at this stage one has achieved higher level skills and so is more able to handle this type of situation, which also transfers to their footwork on the ground, these skills include techniques, drills, fighting skills, forms, and movements. By progressing to the posts, one’s awareness is opened to new levels to detect where their foot will land, balance is increased to maintain their position on the posts, endurance is increased when doing forms and sparring, for doing such exercises on the posts set at different heights can be taxing, strength is increased as well by moving through forms on the varied posts as this uses the legs tremendously, agility and speed are increased as one becomes familiar with how to perform their techniques on unsure ground their speed will increase as they become more sure of where their foot will land when doing their movements, as will their agility in moving from post to post set at different heights, accuracy will increase as a practitioner becomes more sure of their footwork on the posts. One should start their training off slowly, but as they advance in skill so should their speed ratio, the height of the posts on which they move, and they should no longer look at the posts as they move to increase their skills, as this becomes easier they then should progress to two-man exercises and then sparring. The skills that a practitioner further hones on the posts will improve dramatically when on the ground. There are two different sets of post exercises; 1.) The first is to set three to five posts at 30 degree angles to each other and condition the leg with kicks against the posts, a practitioner would do sweeping kicks, side kicks, front kicks, and roundhouse kicks to the hardwood posts to toughen and condition the leg. 2.) The second is as described above with forms, techniques, drills, and finally sparring taking place on the posts, starting out with five posts and progressing the number to nine or more posts to allow for movement while sparring and doing more advanced forms that involved jumps, flying kicks, leaps and spins.
As far as standing on them, I have always used bricks. My first mantis teacher was big into this. I wasn't into it until we moved up to two bricks (then the fun began!). In Wing Chun we used ploymer "posts" may have been cast from a coffee can now that I think about them.
Moi Fa Jongs aren't exclusive to one single MA... many different ones use them differently for a variety of reasons. No one school has the market cornered on them... :woo: :woo: :woo:
No of course not...except the style that created them and their training purpose, techniques, regimens, the style that propagated them to other styles, the style who was the only style to use them for many centuries before they went to others, the style for whom they are named for....
Oh ok... so by that reasoning, should Bagua not have any animals in it because it wasn't originally an animal system & Dong Hai Quan didn't study an animal fu? How about Hung Ga not using the 5 Elements since it's not Xingyi based? C'mon... that's plain silly.
Sure, of course sean, cause you know so much and are a Meihuazhuang master I should actually listen to you about this
Nope not all. My statement was there to adress your coming across as "I'm right, everybody else is wrong" mentality about moi fa jong. I've played two styles that use moi fa jong differently from one another & both had ups & downs. However your position is coming across as "we don't know & are the uneducated masses" is wholly inappropriate & flawed.
I was addressing your comment that no one school has the market cornered (has propriety) on Mei Hua Poles, that I disagreed with as they came from Meihuazhuang, with all the training exercises that were passed to other schools/styles/people. Who do you ask about a subject other than someone who studys what is one of the core foundations of their style? If I want to know how to do Tiet Xing, do I ask a Karate guy, or do I ask a CLF guy? Who will know more, have a better understanding of how it is done and the reasons for it being done in this/that way, who will have greater expertise in it?
So regardless ... all moi fa jong training should be appropriately & correctly referenced back to maihuazhuang for devising the technique & not the previous generations of said style practitioners. Further to be sure we do it right, we should only consult a MHZ practitioner, regardless of our own styles' training regimine for 5 poles stuck in the ground, or bricks laid out or on end... please... Some one who has expertise about a subject within the style studied. If the subject isn't part of my current training, then why ask about it in the context thereof? Go study the style that contains the subject matter, otherwise someone with expertise on the subject within my style is quite sufficient. I dunno. What's Tiet Xing? If you mean, Tid Sin... I'd check a Hung Ga player. If you mean Tit Jin, then I'd ask a CLF player. It depends on what I'm asking about & depending on the karate guy & what he studies, he may have a closer idea anyways. The person who practices it within the proper context of their training regimine regardless of style. :bang: :bang: :bang:
My teacher has a series of 8 "poles", which is the minimum required for the mantis training chongs I've seen and done. In terms of construction, the poles are about 8" tall with a diameter of 5" or 6". The poles are fixed to a board and the board is hinged (dividing the poles into a 5/3 split) for transport. Rgds, David
