Do animals do "Dynamic Tension"?

Greetings to my MAP possee!

I recently did a search on Wikipedia.com regarding the infamous fitness expert, Charles Atlas, who, if you’re curious, was originally born under the name Angelo Siciliano and lived from October 30, 1892 - December 23, 1972. Amongst an abundance of interesting information that is pervaded within the several paragraphs printed on Wikipedia pertaining to Charles Atlas, the following paragraph is stated:

As a youth, according to the story he (Charles Atlas) always told, a bully kicked sand into Siciliano's face at a beach; at this time in his life, also according to the story, he weighed only 97 pounds (44 kg). Humiliated, the young Siciliano joined the YMCA and began to do numerous exercise routines, becoming obsessed with strength. According to several stories/claims, while at the zoo, watching a lion stretch, he thought to himself "Does this old gentleman have any barbells, any exercisers? … And it came over me....He's been pitting one muscle against another!" He concluded that lions and tigers became strong by pitting muscle against muscle.

There is periodically throughout the Wikipedia article on Charles Atlas several references toward the term, "Dynamic Tension".

In regard to the above paragraph where Charles Atlas is quoted, is Charles Atlas inferring that animals do "Dynamic Tension"?

To give us a reference system, if you will, that is, to contextualize the question that I have asked, please let me state my rudimentary understanding of the term, "Dynamic Tension". However, let me also caveat all of this by admitting up front that I am certainly not a fitness expert nor fitness coach. Nor, am I at all proficient, but rather just barely familiar, with the term, “dynamic tension”.

My rudimentary understanding of the term "dynamic tension" is either:

a. isometric exercise. Where, for instance, you can, just for example, with both of your hands gripped together or holding one another, have the intention of pushing with one hand while you are simultaneously resisting that action by pulling with the other hand. Thus, you are simultaneously exercising certain muscle groups as well as their opposing muscle groups. Subsequently, it is my understanding that there are numerous isometric exercises you can do for yourself in order to exercise every part of your body, that is, by self-creating simultaneous opposing bodily actions anywhere within your body.

b. Let’s arbitrarily select any particular action or movement. For example, we’ll arbitrarily use the throwing of a right cross, that is, the action of throwing a right cross punch. From your boxer’s basic defense stance, that is, your right hand near the right side of your face with your right elbow hanging alongside the right side of your torso, you would have the intention of extending your right elbow, so as to unbend or straighten your right arm, so that your right fist travels outward in a direction toward your opponent. Applying the concept of dynamic tension in regard to this action, my understanding is that this would mean that you would purposely create opposing intentions within yourself. That is, as you exert yourself to activate those muscles responsible for extending your right arm, you would also simultaneously exert or activate the opposing muscle groups so as to resist this movement of the straightening of your right arm. However, you would of course within yourself more strongly activate the muscle groups that allow the arm to straighten, while you less intensely activate the opposing muscle groups, in order for your right arm to be able to ultimately straighten.

I would gather from the way I described letter "a" and "b" above, that "a" is more "static", while "b" is more dynamic.

Thus, having expressed the above, does an animal in nature, or a domesticated animal, do either of these two things?

To enact what I wrote in letter "a" above, does a, for instance, lion, just for example, push with one paw, say, against another paw that he is intentionally making immovable? Or, does a, for instance, let’s say, a bear intentionally push his body up against an immovable stationary boulder? Both of the preceding examples in this paragraph would be examples of an animal intentionally performing isometrics.

A lion will fight against his opponent with, for instance, the swing of his right paw so that the claws of his right paw gouge his opponent. To map what I wrote in letter "b" above, will a lion then periodically while he is alone, for instance, purposely activate the muscle groups that allow him to throw is "right paw cross" while simultaneously activating the opposing muscle groups to this action? If this is true, then I would say that a lion does in fact perform dynamic tension.

I observe how animals often times stretch. I can see how this somewhat resembles dynamic tension. However, I don’t see any other variations to this basic stretching movement that they do. I would suppose that, if otherwise, that animals do in fact stretch in several different ways, or directions, or variations, that this could in fact be considered dynamic tension. Or, if some of the ways that they stretch would emulate, for example, the "throwing of a right paw cross”, that this could in fact be considered dynamic tension. However, I do not know if they do this. Perhaps they do?

Thus, I greatly welcome anyone’s reply here on MAP if they can describe for me what Charles was referring to when he said, as I originally transcribed above:

"… And it came over me....He's (an animal) been pitting one muscle against another!” He (Charles Atlas) concluded that lions and tigers became strong by pitting muscle against muscle.


Thus, do animals intentionally or naturally do dynamic tension?

Thank you very much.

The best to all,
Greetings!

 

nope.

 

/end thread

 

Hello "Fish of Doom",

Thank you for taking the time to respond. However, from your one-word response , I am somewhat unclear, but will surmise that you mean that animals do not do, in the technical sense, dynamic tension.

If this not be the case, then what do you believe Charles Atlas meant when he was referring to how animals "pit one muscle against another", as in below.:

"… And it came over me....He's (an animal) been pitting one muscle against another!” He (Charles Atlas) concluded that lions and tigers became strong by pitting muscle against muscle.


Thank you.

All the best to you,
Greetings!

 

it means that he didn't know jack squat about biology. big and strong animals are big and strong because of their genes. a tiger is big for the same reason a mouse is small: because that's how they evolved. they also chase, kill and eat other animals, which is a rather good workout.

atlas meant exactly what he said. he meant what he said because he used it to sell something. it's called marketing.

 

I think you will find Atlas took inspiration from it - in the same way many of the "Animal" systems take inspiration from their namesakes (Mantis, Crane etc...). It doesn't mean those animals do kung fu anymore than panthers do Dynamic Tension

Atlas was also a weights and cable user prior to "inventing" his course

 

I kinda thought that stretching, like when you wake and like cats do, was muscle against muscle, elongating muscles against opposing muscles, was this type of dynamic do-dah.

Not sure it increases strength but it feels good.

And is that not how isometric stretches work. Sort of.

Or did I misread that lonnnng op?

 

he's not talking about isometric stretching, he's talking about charles atlas scamming people by telling them they could get huge muscles just by tensing up, and justifying it with a ridiculous story about him coming to the conclusion that animals used it because he saw a lion stretching at the zoo and that was why the lion was big and strong.

 

if he ever really believed it, it just proves he hadn't the faintest clue about biology.

 

Dear Fish of Doom, Hannibal, and gapjumper,

Thank you for your responses.

Some of you have eluded to animals, such as lions or tigers, did not get strong by doing "dynamic tension". You believe that their strength is inherent within their genes. OK. Fine. This may or may not be the case. Not knowing one way or the other, I am OK with these kinds of statements from you guys.

This makes interesting conversation. However, it being somewhat of a side topic, it wasn't the main topic that I was inquiring about when I initially started this thread.



If we wanted to, otherwise, continue to take this thread in that direction, I suppose that I could ask you all if perhaps "dynamic tension" enhances or trains an animal's body to become even stronger than it would be naturally.

However, instead, the main topic of my thread was to inquire if animals do in fact do "dynamic tension".

Without being completely knowledgeable about the product Charles Atlas was trying to sell, albeit "Dynamic Tension", whether it be good, or not so good, I am just asking objectively, if you believe that animals intentionally or naturally do dynamic tension?

As I mentioned previously, I observe animals "stretching", which I guess resembles somewhat dynamic tension.

However, I don’t see any other variations to this basic stretching movement that I see animals do. I would suppose that, if otherwise, that animals do in fact stretch in several different ways, or directions, or variations, that this could in fact be considered dynamic tension. Or, if some of the ways that they stretch would emulate, for example, the "throwing of a right paw cross”, that this could in fact be considered dynamic tension. However, I do not know if they do this. Perhaps they do?

Again, please guys, I am not asking if Charles Atlas's method of dynamic tension was a good or bad idea, I am just asking if animals do dynamic tension.

I hope we can still be friends.

Greetings!

 

In that case

No
They
Do
Not

End of answer, end if thread

 

Dear Hannibal,

Thank you for your response. That being said, I am bewildered as to your always, from only having the experience of meeting and interacting with you just today, trite comments and flippant attitude, as well as your unrelenting requests to end this thread.

This seems somewhat contradictory for a forum that is supposedly advocating and encouraging various topics of discussion pertaining to martial arts, physical fitness, nutrition, lifestyle, and most other topics of health,

Does this thread that I took a substantial amount of time to articulate seem that rudimentarily boring to you? Or, does it touch some sort of nerve, or somehow strike an otherwise subjective unpleasant personal feeling within you?

I’m just not gettin’ it.

Are you a troll on other websites?

I am hoping that your stifling remarks and behavior do not inhibit others from posting interesting or informative feedback.

Greetings!

 

What animals do is die if they are ill suited to their role in life.
A lion or tiger could be bigger and stronger than they are. But they would need more food to sustain that bulk and they would be slower. So natural selection has balanced the competing pressures of life and built the best lion or tiger it can.
They will practice activity and movement they will require in life but they don't 'train' dynamic tension or any other sort of regime.
They do not practice left paw jab right cross paw.

 

Greetings Greetings

As the answer is (a) self evident and (b) been addressed fully I put forth the postulate that it is not I who is trolling

You asked a question and the answer is "no"

Moving like a gorilla will not make you a gorilla; moving like a panther will not make you a panther. They are biologically designed to move like that and that's why they do

I hope the fact you don't pay any attention or apparently read doesn't stop you learning something sometime

 

And now, doc Hannibal Lecter will come and kill you tonight! :Alien:

*runs for cover*

 

Dear PAsmith and Dean Winchester,

Thank you for your replies.

Again, thank you to Fish of Doom and Gapjumper for your contributions.

By observing some of the replies, I believe that some are over-emphasizing or unduly focusing on the application of dynamic flexion toward one particular action, that being the "right cross" or other boxing punches. I was just using that particular action as an example of just one of many possible different actions or movements that an animal does.

I believe that it has already been somewhat established that "stretching", i.e. when you observe an animal doing his "basic stretch", that that is some form of dynamic flexion.

However, I was hopefully possibly opening up the discussion to possible other "stretch" variations while the animal was "stretching", as well as several other daily mundane actions that an animal does, and if perhaps any of those actions were also recipients of the application of dynamic tension, such actions as, for instance, say, ...

1. crouching in anticipation of a pounce
2. the pulling action in the limbs when climbing up a tree
3. the extension of the spine and neck in order to take a drink of water at the local water bed
4. rotation of the head in order to observe for predators and watch over the herd
5. expansion of the chest in order to attract a mate
6. organizing their body in order to go into a flexion pattern in order to look beneath or underneath
7. coordinating their body in order to go into an extension pattern in order to look overhead, etc. ...


However, with the unnecessary bogus drama that has been created on this thread, regrettably, most people are by now most likely saturated with this topic.

Thus, best regards to all. Take good care,

Greetings!

 

Animals stretch because of external stimulae in their enviroment,you are anthropomorphising their
behaviour(and are either trolling,a fruitloop or both)

 

atlas was big and strong before ever using "dynamic tension"...
from a thing called actually training