When you start taking hits..posture goes out the window and mobility saves the day. I have never admired martial artists who look "cool" during competition (because of the rules)
So instead of whining about how much these guys suck, why don't you show us the good stuff? Where's your competition footage? Your schools competition footage? What are YOU doing that's so much better than these guys? I'd wager it's not much or you would not be on here trashing the people who are doing it. It would help if you read my posts properly. And I strongly disagree that for non-martial-artists, this would give karate a bad image. The big criticism I hear among adults is that karate is too unrealistic, too entrenched in perfect kata, kumite that resembles tag, etc. These videos contradicts those assumptions; it doesn't confirm them. Sorry, don't agree. They weren't exactly powerful. It wasn't realistic. Well it cost them nothing at all, and in this thread alone, you've got one person who said "I would go," several who said "looked fine to me," and only one who criticized it. Seems like effective advertising of a local tournament in my book. Fair point. think I understand what your problem is. You're ****ed that karate people are using pragmatic technique that works rather than some idealised hokey-fu, right? __________________ Most of the techniques weren't working. The technique was poor. When you can get hurt, everything changes mostly people who dislike this approach haven't had much or any exposure to violence, I applaud Gavin Sensei and his group and they are considered an excellent Goju Ryu group in the UK. Yes. It does change things. But they weren't hurting each other. __________________ If you look at the videos you will also see Neil "The Goliath" Grove sparring (former Cage Rage star who recently went over to the UFC). No it doesn't look flashy but it works The guy that lost in the 1st round in the UFC right?
Lol! He was also the guy who knocked James Thompson out in 10 seconds! He has more wins than losses in pro MMA and he was good enough to get to the UFC! I don't think that his loss at the UFC takes away from his achievements as a martial artist. I think Neil Grove can hold his own when it comes to a scrap and he is the product of the organisation you are criticising as bad karate! That club train and fight hard as their videos of a small interclub tournie clearly demonstrates.
Are we watching the same videos? I'm seeing a lot of kicks rocking people, and people stopped with punches. More importantly, there's a definite will to fight and go forward even when they get hit. Could you post some footage you consider "good" for comparison? He also has a 8-2 record. All 8 wins by TKO. Must be a real wuss right?
Just so that I'm clear, THIS is the Neil Grove we're talking about, right? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU4jhgChkQ"]YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9AXedA-I8c"]UFC Cage Rage 22 Grove vs Thompson - YouTube[/ame] He may not be as elegant as Machida in the ring, but I really, really wouldn't say that he casts karate in a bad light. Puma, at least for me, it's come to the point where you need to put up or shut up. You're moaning and complaining about some amateur karateka who are fighting pretty hard at a local tournament and, in everyone's eyes but yours, representing themselves well. Now you're bashing a karateka with an MMA record of 8-2. So where is a video of your kumite? If Grove and the DKK guys represent karate poorly, SHOW US what you think represents karate well.
The DKK guys and gals can clearly mix it up and take some whilst doing some, kudos to them. My critique would be I dont neccesarily think this kind of kumite is 'the best' method, but in terms of developing fighting spirit it is certainly close. I struggle with no heads shots, hence we do Bogu Kumite to allow that - but my method has it limitations as well. It has it faults but I applaud this dojo and it's methods.
It was a hell of a lot more useful than the usual 'left little toe MUST be at an angle of 45 degrees' crap that karate people usually come up with. Technique that can't be used under pressure is worthless. Oh, and like you can do better?
Agree about the head shots. It was a hell of a lot more useful than the usual 'left little toe MUST be at an angle of 45 degrees' crap that karate people usually come up with. Technique that can't be used under pressure is worthless. Oh, and like you can do better? No need to get personal. I don't like the clip. This is a forum for discusion isn't it? You don't know me anyway. How can you guess I can't do better when you have no idea about me? This isn't about me. I'm not the one putting clips up on youtube. For what it's worth I agree with you about techniques under pressure. So where is a video of your kumite? If Grove and the DKK guys represent karate poorly, SHOW US what you think represents karate well You've missed my point. I will say this one last time. I won't be posting any clips. There are millions of good and bad clips. My point was, I didn't see any need to put a clip of a low level local tornament on youtube. So why would I then contradict myself by putting up clips that, even if they were amazing, people on here will just slaughter because I've knocked this video? Puma, at least for me, it's come to the point where you need to put up or shut up. You're moaning and complaining about some amateur karateka who are fighting pretty hard at a local tournament and, in everyone's eyes but yours, representing themselves well. Now you're bashing a karateka with an MMA record of 8-2. I didn't bash him. I just said he is the guy that lost in UFC. Is that not correct? If I got that wrong, then sorry. But I thought he lost. That isn't bashing him. I respect him for getting in there. Why are you taking this so personally anyway? What's all this "put up or shut up" nonsense? I am allowed an opinion. All sorts of people and clips get criticised on here. I just didn't think this video was very good, that's all. Chill. If you like it fine. I don't.
Puma, The folks in this video were clearly, predominatly, Kyu grades, and I'll bet you nine to the dozen that these Kyu grades 'sloppy techniques' were probably more effective than the majority of 'proper' Karate we see from the majority of Yudansha in the UK. One of the guys rolling in that video was former UFC and Cage Rage Heavyweight fighter, Neil Groves, who is a Goju-ryu Yudansha under Mulholland Sensei. As far as I'm concerned, the DKK model of training of Karate should be the norm. Knockdown, Tegumi, etc...It's all good IMO.
You clearly intended it as a putdown. And now you're backpedaling furiously. Classy. People are taking it so personally because you keep shouting criticism from the bleachers and act indignant when people call you on it. It's insulting towards everyone who actually train. All you had to do was to post a kumite video (from anywhere, didn't even have to be related to you) that you consider good and you failed spectacularly.
Here we go again, trying to make it a personal attack on me. That IS classy. I'm not back peddling as you put it from anything. I didn't like the video. I've said that from the start. As for the cage dude, I never brought him up. Someone else mentioned him. To be honest, I am not interested in him at all. I brought up the topic of the video, not him. People are taking it so personally because you keep shouting criticism from the bleachers and act indignant when people call you on it. It's insulting towards everyone who actually train This didn't make sense. All you had to do was to post a kumite video (from anywhere, didn't even have to be related to you) that you consider good and you failed spectacularly. Today 02:24 PM I haven't failed at anything. As it has been said this was a small competition. If I put a clip of someone amazing and compared them, it wouldn't be fair would it? I just don't see the point in videos like these. That is all. I wasn't impressed. You obviously think they are the most magnificent Karate-ka ever, but sorry, I don't. And because you can't convince me with anything intelligent, you start with personal attacks. Well done you. If you haven't got anything to add to the conversation, then why come on here and just rant at me? Surely ther are other topics you can comment on? So can we stop the silliness, and if anyone has got anything to say about the video, good or bad, I would be interested. Here is your chance. Tell me, in a sensible grown-up manner, why you like the video so much. We have had the contact element mentioned. What else is so impressive?
There were lots of things I liked about this video so I'll list the ones I can think of. I personally thought that there was good technique in there under pressure. The students were fighting hard and fast. I liked and approved of the level of contact used. They were fighting at all ranges in their stand up from kicking to clinching. It was good to see Karate students grappling naturally. You could tell that they train ground work regularly. I know of the organisation and recognised a couple of faces, though they wouldn't know me as I only went to the Bristol club for about 2 weeks! It looked a lot of fun. It seemed more real than most karate and tae kwon-do tournaments that I have seen. All the students had fighting spirit and giving it their all.
Is it old school okinawian grappling, that evolved into the okinawian form of sumo? It may of fullfilled the same role that all traditional forms of wrestling do, allows men to compete safely, allows the physical training of the body, and the core skills usefull in warfare. Applied to modern day training, any form of wrestling used by an okinawian based art could be called tegumi at a push? (the ? marks are there becuse this is all my uninformed conjecture) Nice article about it here: http://www.seinenkai.com/art-sumo.html and some modern videos that feature the same area as classical tegumi (i wouldnt know if it was direct teaching or not) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzlNHQLbU4&feature=related"]YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTqNw16IlA8"]YouTube[/ame]
1) I liked it, 2) It showed karate in a good light 3) There org has some experience in MMA, and to me it looks like there having a laugh about a) the awfull names of MMA shows, B) the fact that what there doing isnt full pro MMA, I think it shows a sense of humour and levity 4) If you feel ripped off after watching a free youtube video, with people doing honest, contact training, with a sense of humour, then quite frankly I dont think its the people on the video who have the attitude problem.
To be fair, I never mentioned any thing about being ripped off, nor did I say they had an attitude problem. I know nothing about this group, so I don't know what their sense of humour is. I was just going by what I saw. I wouldn't imagine they would put a video on to 'show their sense of humour'. With things like this, some people will like some won't. I mean, there are people, believe it or not, who think Gokanryu aren't that bad. It comes down to personal opinions. I just didn't think it was very good. They may be a magnificent Karate group for all I know, but I don't feel that this video showed that.
Oh, and just about the MMA thing. This really ha nothing to do with it. Like anything, there is good and bad MMA fighters. Just because someone has been in the cage, I am not going to think, "They must be brilliant at Karate because they had a cage fight." I saw a fight on TV last night, and they were terrible. Looked like they had never trained in their life. But then last week I saw a fighter who was fantastic. Same in anything. Good and bad. It also depends who you fight. Some times it can be possible to build a record having fairly easy fights. It is sometimes possible to win titles in boxing, MMA, etc, without fighting the best. So in this case, some of them do MMA. So what? Again, I can only go by what I see in this video. I don't think MMA has anything to do with it, especially as the rules in this film obviously do not allow head punches.
the videos are up for the same reason every match at every bjj tournament known to man ends up on youtube: people are proud of what they've done and want to share it with others. this is healthy and normal for all skill levels, not just pros. in this case, it's a highlight reel, and it looks like they took the time to find a highlight from every participant. this is good; it encourages people to train, and train hard, and makes everyone feel included in the group (which, in turn, improves training). the tournament was put on for the benefit of the participants, not you; the videos, in turn, aren't for your benefit, but primarily for the participants. if you don't like it, don't watch it; the rest of us (who can identify with the people involved, regardless of the specific content) recognize that there's a lot to be gained from watching normal people demonstrate their abilities and the results of their training, and will continue to get something out of things that don't live up to the standards of some guy on the internet.
