Discussion based upon the 'facts' or based on the person

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by mattt, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    To those of you that know of me on this forum I am not shy to give an opinion. However I recently have been trying to make a concerted effort to argue points rather than people.

    Sometimes it seems very easy to either put a person on a pedestal and then go on to take everything they say as gospel (even defending a point of view that you don't necessarily believe) or on the flip side total ignore very valid points when it comes from a person who you have marked as foolish. I saw that a lot here, and I think I was quite guilty of it too.

    So, I have been trying to avoid that and focus on the facts...

    Tonight I was discussing a subject on another forum regarding IRS reporting for a certain type of income, that is a really unique case that I feel I am so right about based on facts, backed up with IRS law, along comes this guy and we are bickering back and forth on the matter....we were discussing gambling wins.

    He has a link in his sig to his blog....

    I dig a little...

    The guy graduated from Harvard, invented (I mean really invented) MS Word, was PA to Bill Gates, quit MS rejoined them later to build MS Access, quit again, wrote several books, became a pro poker player, appeared on TV and in Movies...

    I feel like my entire concept of the argument over the man went out of the window, and I am blown away.

    Ooops -- mods, in my mancrush I didn't post this in the Off Topic Sub Forum, could you move it there pls?
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    man-crush thread moved. :D
  3. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Is there a question there?

    Always make an argument on facts. You can attack the person but only in something that brings ga their integrity into question because it means their argument may not be based on facts or appropriate expertise.

    Good - 'what does someone who graduated with an economics degree know about anatomy?'
    Bad - 'you're wrong because you are an ugly smelly poopy head'
  4. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    but ugly smelly poopy heads are ALWAYS wrong, thats like a scientifically proven fact surely?
  5. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member


    Did you ask this muppet why the spell checker in MS Word is so rubbish?
  6. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    ad hominem is definitely the most entertaining and hilarious of the logical fallacies if done with panache and it can sometimes have a genuine bearing on the conversation or line of inquiry too.

    However, a robust and productive debate should be fought over ideas rather than personalities.
  7. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

  8. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    What he said ^


    Invite him over here so we can have a crack at him...inventor, published, poker player...hmph!
  9. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I'll have to ask his advise on that.
  10. mattt

    mattt Valued Member


    Let it be known though, that he didn't bring it up, I just noticed it and then found him more interesting than the point I was arguing.
  11. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    well, it goes both ways right? you don't want to attack a person, just their arguments that you disagree with. but also, just because he invented word that doesn't mean he's right in this case. that's the ol' "argument from authority".

    are you right or him?
  12. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I see what you did there. :D
  13. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    The subject matter was pertaining to a sphere of excellence for both of us, gambling and taxation, so it levels things.

    This was a case where one could be 'right' for the answer to fit within their risk tolerance levels, mine is lower when it comes to correct accounting.

    Also, it was a derail conversation from a previous derail which I really did care about, in which I crushed some chump so all good there.
  14. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Just to be clear, when you say that you 'crushed' him, did you actually drive him before you? And may we safely assume that you heard the lamentation of his women?
  15. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    That is exactly what I mean, and his final cries were a pathetic attempt at backtracking out of the way of my chariot using a subtle blend of pedantic and semantic claims, unfortunately when turning to semantics as a final defense it helps if you actually understand the meaning of the word you are using as the crux of your argument.

    I have absorbed his woman folk into my tribe now, their cries are those of joy.
  16. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Good for you! Call me an old softy, but I love a happy ending. :love:
  17. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I think that might be my next tattoo, now, where to put it..
  18. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    At the end? :evil:
  19. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

  20. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    lol johnno! i use this so often, my wife is like "don't say the arnold line again".

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc"]Conan, what is best in life? - YouTube[/ame]

    never gets old!

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