That has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen and on so many levels. First, wherever did you get the idea that using a tool is evil and insane? The only reason we oversexed bald monkeys conquered the planet was because we used tools to defend ourselves against bigger, stronger animals that wanted to eat us. I don't eat my meat raw, and I don't eat it with my fingers. Why would I risk my life fighting with them? What do you think those opposable thumbs are for? If it's not some form of pseudo-philosophical masturbation or sports competition run according to rules of fair play martial arts is about fighting. You know. Staying alive when other people don't want you to. That's why all the serious systems teach weapons. The whole idea is to keep your blood on the inside. Empty hands are for when you don't have anything better. I hope to G-d that you don't have anyone who depends on you, a lover, a spouse, an aging parent. And for the love of all that is holy never, ever have children. If they are ever in danger and the most expedient means of saving their lives are to stab or shoot someone and you hesitate for philosophical reasons I have news for you. You have failed the most basic moral test there is. You have allowed a loved one to die because you value the life of the evil doer and a neurotic abstraction of purity more than you do a flesh and blood person who trusts you to keep him or her safe. Things that live under rocks and bite the hand that disturbs their grubs could give you lessons in moral philosophy. Risking the life of the innocent to keep the guilty out of danger is utterly immoral. You can be as merciful and compassionate as you can afford to be. If you are the love child of Ueshiba Moreihi and Dan Inosanto maybe you'll have the excess skill to harmlessly contain the bad guy with no tools. Bully for you. We mere mortals don't have the chops to "fight with contempt" (for the danger an attacker represents) as my teacher puts it. If grandma, who weighs 90 pounds and has taken one full trip around the cruel old Sun for each of them, comes after me with her walker I'll take it away gently. If a fit and angry or insane man comes at me with the intention of taking my life or that of a loved one I'm going to take him down as efficiently as I possibly can. So will any sane person. What do you say to the woman who is about to be raped? "Only hit him with your empty hand. It would be better for him to repeatedly shove his penis into every orifice of your body, forcibly impregnate you, leave you with incurable deadly diseases and scar you psychologically for life than to overcome his natural advantages with a weapon." I can parse every single word in that statement. But I can't comprehend it. It is so ethically bankrupt as to beggar description.
Yes, every forum has a lot of this. It is the same old tale...If this/if that, I'll do this/I'll do that, This is better than that. This could/this couldn't.....What if.... I like this. (over that ) The misconception of martial arts is that it has to be weaponless or use antiquated ones. The foremost role of martial arts lies within its term. Basically it is a system of fighting/defense in accordance to the era of the time. *Yes, I dont want to get on the literal/dictionary term, very conflicting. Could it be the example of youth living in the "chop-suey fantasy world Yes, and it will be a inocent bystander while someone does or doesnt do. Yes, using any "tool" that you have ready-in play, and on the drop. This what I couldn't understand what the gun/knife demo had to prove. I know a guy that is so against use of weapons, any type, that when he was invited to play a video game that had weapons, he would disgard them. Needless to state that he did not last in the game. He had a non-violence creed. But when his sister got mugged, and they located the attacker, he was approaching friends looking for a weapon to use. Hmmnnnnn
The Tueller drill and its variants are mostly a wakeup call to people who believe that the gun is a magic wand. It demonstrates that there's a reactionary gap, that action beats reaction and that a person can get close enough to do you faster than you'd think. Most people acknowledge reality when it gets personal.
But I knew this BEFORE the Tueller drill. The Tueller drill is a reality check. Just like the guy I spoke about. i\It takes something to finally click the check. It is common sense that I cant understand what the fuss is all about.
A lot of things that are common sense turn out not to be so. Tueller was the first to do a series of controlled experiments and demonstrate and quantify the difference. Phil Messina did a similar set of experiments but made it a little harder. Instead of both guys going at a signal the guy with the knife went whenever he wanted to. The distance within which he could reach the guy with the gun before the gunner could draw and fire increased to 25-30 feet.
If have to I would at first use my jacket(if i haved time to take it off) or somthing like that or a stick if I had the possibility. But I don't think it's a good idea to try to disarm the attacker, even if you're a cold ass Krav Maga expert. If the ******* wants your money give him your money 'cause your life is worth more than a few dollars.
I think the vast majority of people here take it for red theres no option left but to defend against the attacker ie talk down / escape is not an option. I don't really agree with your coat idea, taking a coat off puts you in a vulnerable position whilst doing so, and if you have time to do that without risk, then why aren't you using that time to make your break!?
Let me take this moment to say how much I hate the phrase "common sense." Because it is, to me, the height of intellectual smugness and dishonesty. Being a teacher, I'm confronted every day by students from all walks of life that have different ideas about exactly what "common sense" is and are quick to look down on those who don't have their specific brand of it. Look at posts across this forum (and others) to see how many people don't fundimentally understand guns and knives. And, I'm guessing that if we set the way back machines far enough, we could find a time where even you lacked this special brand of common sense. I know there was a long time where I did. Tellner, any suggestions of good places to find write ups on those two studies? I've always heard the results, but I've never actually read them. - Matt
For Phil Messina's followup try his website, http://www.modernwarrior.com . There are several articles on the subject there. He also sells videos of the experiment. For Tueller, try the Wiki Article. It includes cites of the original study by Sgt. Dennis Tueller of the Salt Lake City PD.
I've noticed you reference Mr. Messina's work a few times (including his work with pepper spray). I'm always a bit bummed when he comes up as I missed the opportunity to train with him while I was living in that area (years ago, before I knew better). - Matt
Bummer. Of course, he has task-specific workshops on things like limb and jaw control, multiple attackers and groundfighting. You could check a couple of them out. I had a chance to study with my Silat teacher's uncle. He was in the area, but we didn't hear about him until he was dead. Could have had years of Menangkabau Silat :bang:
One ought not reference comon sense with intellligence. Intellegent people often do non-sensical things
Well you're probably right By the way how is your law of wearing weapons in form of knifes, sticks etc
Its all guess work really. In the UK the weapon laws are very harsh, you'll be in trouble just to be caught with a concealed weapon.
I couldnt agree with this post more. In our classes , we train SelfDefence against knife attacks quite regularly and everyone recognises the fact (as highlight various times in this thread) that there is a MAJOR difference between training in the class and the street. Although blocking a knife attack with a kick works in a class , I would surely not try it in the street . One has to keep his feet on his ground (sorry for the pun) when dealing these subjects ,and posters who are not experienced should refrain from commenting.
